Theresa May - Hypocrit

[CardinalSin]

Did anyone see her speech in Glasgow? It doesn't take very much to make the case for the EU with it;

"Politics is not a game and government is not a platform from which to pursue constitutional obsession. It is about taking the serious decisions to improve people's lives. A tunnel vision nationalism, which focuses only on independence Brexit at any cost, sells Scotland the UK short.

As Unionists, our job is clear. We know we are united together by a proud, shared history, but we are also bound together by enduring common interests. The United Kingdom European Union we cherish is not a thing of the past, but a Union vital to our prosperity and security, today and in the future.

The Union I am determined to strengthen and sustain is one that works for working people across England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland. A UK Europe which everyone can feel secure in. A Union in which our national and local identities are recognised and respected, but where our common bonds are strengthened. Where difference and diversity are celebrated, but where those things we share are celebrated just as much.

Because at the heart of the United Kingdom European Union is the unity of our people: a unity of interests, outlook, and principles. This transcends politics and institutions, the constitution, and the economy. It is about the values we share in our family of nations. Our pooling and sharing of risks and resources, our social and economic solidarity. That social union is the glue which holds us together.

We should never forget that the people who benefit most from solidarity across the United Kingdom European Union are not the strong and the successful, but the poorest and the most vulnerable in our society. We are four twenty eight nation, but at heart we are one people. That solidarity is the essence of the United Kingdom European Union and is the surest safeguard of its future.

Let us live up to that high ideal and let us never stop making loudly and clearly, the positive, optimistic, and passionate case for our precious union of nations and people."

Well you may be new to MN Slippery, but some of us have been debating the issues for months. Believe it or not, we want the best for the country. I for one am careful not to slander any other poster. BoJo and May are in a position where they should expect criticism and should be able to put forward robust arguments to defend their positions.

Ask them to come on mumsnet then.

I would suggest she has and concluded the EU just wont let us stay in the single market unless we accept everything else and that is just pretend Brexit

I have a massive issue with that.
Because negiciations are ALWAYS a two ways process. There is no way, in those circumstances, that it will only be the EU fault if things do not work out. It certainly will not be the EU fault if the uk doesn't get what it wants. Because it's a negociation and therefore everyone has to give in, at the very least a little bit.
Then BOTH sides will have things that they are not happy to negotiate on. Which is absolutely fine.
But if tits ok for the uk to have those own boundaries and say 'I will NOT accept xxx' the it should also be OK for the EU to say 'I will NOT accept yyy'. And neither the uk nor the eu should be then made responsible for the breakdown in the negotiations.

I think it would be very unfair to put LP the responsibility onto the eu for a negative result (and of course all the responsibility and look how they are into the British government if the result is goo). That's not how negociations work.

How do you square that with the EU refusing to negotiate meaningfully with Cameron pre June24th ?

I square it by acknowledging that Cameron was a poor negotiator.

RedAndYellowPeppers We have already tried negotiating to stay in the single market whilst controlling migration, the EU were having none of it.
As Albert Einstein said, insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. And as Sheldon writes, how do you square that?

Our new relationship with the EU has yet to be negotiated and the government is saying it will be a two way process, why do you think it would be otherwise?

I square it by acknowledging that Cameron was a poor negotiator
Well that's who lead the party we voted (twice) to run the country for us. Similarly TM. If you think they are not good negotiators then your beef is with the British public. Personally I think TM is already showing signs of a being a formidable advocate for the UK.

We have already tried negotiating to stay in the single market whilst controlling migration, the EU were having none of it.

Far from the EU having non of it - neither Blair nor Cameron took up the option to control immigration that the EU allows us.

anon my point is that, if the UK sticks to its ideas of controlling immigration and the EU sticks to its idea of having the FOM, it will NOT be the EU fault only if negociations break down.
It will be the UK and the EU fault as they both did not want to buldge.

It is not possible to say that it's OK for the UK not to want to change their position on immigration but says it's not ok for the RU to do the same thing.

The UK also never used the possibility to put quota on immigration from Poland etc... so it's a bit rich to now say it's the EU fault if the UK can't control immigration when it didn't use the control it did have ...

I square it by acknowledging that Cameron was a poor negotiator

Well that's who lead the party we voted (twice) to run the country for us. Similarly TM. If you think they are not good negotiators then your beef is with the British public.

Yup! I certainly do have a beef with them about it. I didn't vote for either of them. In fact, nobody voted for TM, even her own party.

Actually, I think that the EU did allow Cameron quite a few concessions, There were limits to be allowed on in-work benefits for EU migrants for example, guaranteed opt-outs from closer political integration and he actually was offered more than he expected regarding regulations affecting competitiveness. Sadly they weren't good enough for Paul Dacre, who actually seems to have more influence on government policy than the Prime Minister.

Well that's who lead the party we voted (twice) to run the country for us. Similarly TM.

Not yet - she hasn't won an election under her own name.

Personally I think TM is already showing signs of a being a formidable advocate for the UK.

You missed out the words 'smashing up' before 'the UK'.

It will be the UK and the EU fault as they both did not want to buldge
I don't get your point, what does it matter who's fault it is? The EU wants FOM, we don't, that's why we are leaving and negotiating a new trade arrangement. I don't see anyone to blame its just a difference of opinion.

The UK also never used the possibility to put quota on immigration from Poland etc Again I don't get your point, we could blame Blair but we still have to deal with the situation we are in now. The EU wont budge on FOM we want to change it, so that is what we are doing. Blame is irrelevant.

Well that's who lead the party we voted (twice) to run the country for us. Similarly TM...... who leads the party we voted for twice, to run the country for us.

In fact, nobody voted for TM, even her own party
In the last ballot TM won 199 votes to Leadsoms 84 and Goves 46.

You missed out the words 'smashing up' before 'the UK'

Your confusing her with Sturgeon.

I think that the EU did allow Cameron quite a few concessions
Yes he did and I was on the fence about leaving because of them. However a majority of voters didn't think they were enough and so we are leaving.

Another one here who doesn't understand the point of the blame game? We are not happy in the EU so we try to find an agreement that works and fail so we hold a vote and Leave. It's both parties fault and neither the other member states want the EU supranational government we don't and we don't want the single market if it comes with FOM you can hold as many votes as you like. Hamstring TM's negotiations to your hearts cpntent the outcome is the same. Out of the Ezu means out of the single market the two are synonymous that was always clear to me and every Leave voter I know.