New EU immigration regulations may lead to deportations

[Mistigri]

Article on new HO regulations concerning the rights of EU citizens in the UK:

www.freemovement.org.uk/briefing-legal-status-eu-citizens-uk/

On the face of it, these new rules would appear to give the HO the right to deport any EU citizen without permanent residency rights, who is not currently exercising treaty rights and who does not have private health insurance. This will include many EU spouses of UK citizens who are not currently working and cannot document a 5 year period during which they exercised treaty rights - regardless of the amount of time they have spent in the UK.

This gives a whole new slant to those HO letters suggesting that EU citizens make plans to leave. Might be time for affected EU citizens to consider legal advice :-/

(Weird and hostile way of opening negotiations with the EU27 over migrants' rights - I am coming to the conclusion that May may actually want the negotiations to fail).

I read that with 5 year legal residency you automatically have PR, there is no need to apply. So all this form filling is causing necessary worry to people.

Merkel said that negotiations would have to wait for A50, but she doesn't speak for the EU on this matter

And in the real world?

Exactly anon

I read that with 5 year legal residency you automatically have PR, there is no need to apply. So all this form filling is causing necessary worry to people
Silly me, I spent £65 and weeks of getting documents together and phone calls to the HO. If only I had known! And friends who cannot apply because they're SAH parents need no worry then!

And in the real world?

And in the real world, non-EU immigration is not an EU competence - it's an issue which is left up to national governments. So any changes will need to be voted through 27 parliaments.

You have a hugely inflated, and worryingly uninformed, view of Merkel's influence. She has been unable, for example, to get the EU27 to agree on refugee quotas - and she can't force their hands because non-EU immigration is a national matter not an EU one.

I read that with 5 year legal residency you automatically have PR, there is no need to apply. So all this form filling is causing necessary worry to people.

After 5 years of exercising treaty rights (not legal residency: different thing) you have an automatic right to PR. However, good luck with applying for nationality without your PR certificate - it'll go straight on the "refused" pile.

The EU is I believe taking the UK govt to court on this point, because it is considered to be breaching EU law.

But haven't several Members of the EU including the UK tried to solve this already with Merkel and others refusing to?

I'm not aware of any moves by France or Spain (where the main issues are). Nothing will happen in France until after the election.

But in any case it's a nonsense to start framing amendments to national immigration law, and presenting it to a vote in parliament, when the UK is still an EU member and A50 still hasn't been invoked.

I suppose Hollande could have made a provisional commitment, but what would be the point of that? It wouldn't be worth anything, as the new government would have to draft and pass any necessary legislation, and would not be bound by any commitment made by the outgoing president.

But in any case it's a nonsense to start framing amendments to national immigration law, and presenting it to a vote in parliament, when the UK is still an EU member and A50 still hasn't been invoked.

But isn't this what you say that the UK should be doing?

But isn't this what you say that the UK should be doing?

Has the French Parliament, for example, tabled a "Brexit Bill"?

The UK is passing legislation which will redefine its relationship with the EU; no other EU state is doing this.

Nor is any other EU state talking about "bargaining chips".

Are you so naive as to believe that that isn't what certain member states are doing?

If the EU cared so much about their "citizens", then this could already be solved

If the EU cared so much about their "citizens", then this could already be solved

Since you are an expert on EU law, can you explain to me under what legal and practical mechanisms this would be done?

Presumably UK nationals living in EU member states will get the same status as other non-EU nationals. I am not sure why the UK thinks it can demand a special status for its nationals abroad when the UK has made the decison to leave the union.

Since you are an expert on EU law

Could you point me in the direction of where I have ever claimed this.

But as you are presumably "an expert on EU law" why this couldn't be resolved in the EU parliment?

I think an agreement will be done under which all migrants who qualify for PR will have their rights guaranteed (and I do think this can possibly be agreed at the EU level). It will still be messy, because as we have seen, the UK will refuse PR on spurious grounds if it thinks it can get away with it - but it does seem to me to be amenable to a political solution.

The issue is how you deal with those who fall short, for eg non-working spouses - at present, differences in national law mean that a non-working UK spouse living in an EU country may have more rights than a non-working EU spouse in the UK. I don't see how this can be resolved at EU level, since these people may not have acquired rights under EU law.

non-EU immigration is a national matter not an EU one.

Just repeating this for you Misti!

It will still be messy, because as we have seen, the UK will refuse PR on spurious grounds if it thinks it can get away with it

Just like some EU states will.

You have a hugely inflated, and worryingly uninformed, view of Merkel's influence. She has been unable, for example, to get the EU27 to agree on refugee quotas - and she can't force their hands because non-EU immigration is a national matter not an EU one.

Well with changes to the Dublin agreement, which has seen migrants pour straight through with the intention of reaching the wealthier parts of Europe, plus threats of fines I beg to differ.

Merkel's recent influence has been dented by her dictatorial stance in inviting unlimited migration into the EU. But she still holds the purse strings.

Well with changes to the Dublin agreement, which has seen migrants pour straight through with the intention of reaching the wealthier parts of Europe, plus threats of fines I beg to differ.

Rubbish - she has been unable to get an agreement to refugee quotas.

It will still be messy, because as we have seen, the UK will refuse PR on spurious grounds if it thinks it can get away with it

Just like some EU states will.

Yes, this is probably right. But it's broadly less problematic in most EU countries (or at least in the ones with the most UK nationals) because they have much simpler PR processes for people claiming on the basis of acquired EU rights, typically the forms are a couple of pages.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/346ba28a-10b8-11e6-bb40-c30e3bfcf63b

I agree boneyback

I agree anon

slippery latest on refugee resettlement quotas (from euractiv.com)

So far, only two member states (Malta and Finland) are on track to meet their obligations for both Italy and Greece, whereas some (Hungary, Austria and Poland) are still refusing to participate in the scheme at all and others are doing so on a very limited basis (Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Croatia and Slovakia).

Is there any wonder?

It doesn't stop them continually trying to push and impose their wishes on us.
Some pass the hurdle and some do not, but the longer we are in, the more silly policies get pushed on to us.
This sort of behaviour is the problem and leads to issues for people like spouses etc. because we are already under strain.
Somewhere along the line the eu have forgotten that we are a union of nations not one state. They are about to get a very rude awakening.