Applications from EU nurses have fallen by 90%.

[ChestnutsRoastingOnAnOpenFire]

Since the Brexit vote. On BBC news just now. Saying they feel unwelcome. The ones who are here also making plans to return.

We already have massive nurse shortages across the whole of the UK, but particular in London. It's another job that not enough British people want to do. I appreciate some of that is because the pay is shit for the amount of education, responsibility, emotional and physical labour involved.

Of course, this won't lead to a pay rise for our nursing staff. They'll just import cheaper labour from countries who can ill afford to lose their trained workforce.

There has also been a 25% fall in U.K. Nursing student applicants since this government decided to start charging nurses to do their training. This has put off mature students who made up a significant proportion of applicants.

Another fine cock up of Teresa May and her Brexiteers.

I'll try no explain better

^“I am a British citizen who has lived in America for the past six years – working hard, contributing to society, paying my taxes and bringing up our four children in the place they now call home.

“Now, me and many others like me are being told that we may not be welcome. It’s deeply troubling that I will have to tell my children that Daddy might not be able to come home – to explain why the President has introduced a policy that comes from a place of ignorance and prejudice.^
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/donald-trump-muslim-ban-mo-farah-olympic-gold-medal-speaks-out-against-deeply-troubling-executive-a7551776.html

This is from Mo Farah and actually explain VERY WELL how immigrants settled here with spouse and children feel when 'rules' are suddenly changed and they are told they are not welcomed in the country they have settled down in.
For me there is no difference. You have been welcomed, settled, working hard and ... suddenly you are being kicked out. Where is the difference??

The fact that said executive order is or isn't illegal doesn't matter as such. It's the fact that on one side, when some British people are told they won't be welcomed in a country and might be kicked out, there is uproar and it's awful and how on earth can you do that. But when it's not affecting British citizens, then it doesn't matter. The same values of having a country that is open and tolerant and accepting of all differences aren't as Important anymore (values shared by the US and the UK). The raise of xenophobic attacks don't matter. The fact that we have a PM that didn't say a word about those and that really they aren't acceptable doesn't matter either. The fact that the PM is still taking about using EU citizens are bargaining chips is still there (see the white paper) and no one is demonstrating against that.
The fact that non eu citizens are sent back and families are destroyed doesn't matter either. These people came following the law. They were told they were welcomed here. And now? What do you think the message is? What do you think people hear???

That's what I am disgusted about. Because as an eu citizens, I do feel the same than Mo Farah. How do you think I feel about having to maybe tell my dcs that we cannot live together in the same country, just like him?
And how do you think I feel when I see uproar that Mo might be told he can't get back into the US or has to leave but there is no uproar at the idea that I, as well as another 3 millions people, might have to do the exact same thing???

I fear it's highly likely that the NHS will crash and we will start to see elements of privatisation creeping in.

I agree - we have already seen huge amounts of privatisation. Even so, private hospitals will need to be staffed by someone, and as a deliberate policy we have not trained enough staff, so where will they come from?

That's what I am disgusted about. Because as an eu citizens, I do feel the same than Mo Farah. How do you think I feel about having to maybe tell my dcs that we cannot live together in the same country, just like him?

I'm personally disgusted by both Trump and Brexit (and as a migrant I am personally and professionally affected by the latter). But it's still wrong to make false equivalences between outright discrimination on the basis of religion (using nationality as a proxy for religion), and leaving a trading bloc.

EU migrants - and I am one - are collateral damage of Brexit; they are not being targeted directly on the basis of their nationality or religion. That's the difference.

People have stood up and marched and campaigned against Brexit - I'd like them to do more of that but not at the expense of campaigning against Trump. Brexit is national self-harm, but Trump could do damage on a much wider scale.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/24/nurses-brexit-cuts-eu-staff-nhs-crisis

It's a Brexit storm. I work with a lot of EU nurses and the majority feel that Brexit is a slap on the face for them. One of my spanish colleague said that, he gave his time and skill for the UK and now he feels he is being kicked out.

The EU nurses are a a very young productive and economic workforce- skilled but most are in the bottom on the pay scale, not using maternity leave (as most are young), usually not in long term sick leave. The NHS got a good bargain for this set of work force.

I think what will happen is another wave of recruitment from the non EU countries - something that that that been done in the NHs since the 1950s

The government is introducing the nursing associate role this year
nursingnotes.co.uk/nursing-associate-job-description-revealed/

The good thing about it is there is a push that this profession will be regulated.

However, the pay will be at a band 4 once all the training have been completed.

Expect that there will be a rise in nursing associates in the future.

Another caveat is that the more degree educated nurses there are in a ward, the lower the patient mortality

www.southampton.ac.uk/news/2014/02/26-degree-educated-nurses-can-reduce-hospital-deaths.page

Isn't having nurse associates a backward step? Consider that we used to have State Enrolled Nurses who weren't as highly trained as State Registered Nurses, and that qualification was phased out.

I expect there will be a rise - compare it with the rise of Teaching assistants in schools being plonked in front of classes or 'cover supervisors' instead of properly trained supply teachers.

I think what will happen is another wave of recruitment from the non EU countries - something that that that been done in the NHs since the 1950s

I'm dubious about this, as nursing does not pay well enough for people to reach the income threshold at which they would be able to bring their families. I believe that language criteria have also been tightened since the last wave of non-EU immigration.

So Theresa May will have to relax her rules.......the hypocrite.

Alternatively, after Brexit there will be no illness, so we won't need so many nurses .

www.gov.uk/tier-2-general/eligibility

I think the threshold for nurses is around £25,000. Majority of the nurses who come here from overseas (whether non EU or non EU) tend to be young and single. I have read somewhere that Non EU nurses tend to stay in the UK and integrate.

Last year a trust in Surrey recruited 20 nurses from a non EU country (stipulation was the nurses would have already passed the IELTS exam before coming here to take 2nd part of a practical nursing exam). Small number due to influx of EU nurses but a model for future overseas recruitment.

Peregrina- many nursing academics do think that the nursing associates are akin to the state enrolled nurses. However, the government spiel is contary to this.

This might be anecdotal but in the recent years the nursing students that I have encountered are of higher calibre- critical thinkers and good at reflection- qualities that are crucial in this state of affairs we are now in. All is not lost

Elements, I heard in Radio 4 that this year will be the highest number of 70 year olds post war and will continue to rise. Unfortunately, co morbidities will start creeping in and the NHS is unprepared for this.

This will be coupled by the looming crisis in care homes
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/8780e0c4-8874-11e5-90de-f44762bf9896

In a recent article of nursing standard, there has been a reduction of beds in care homes due to closure. "Bed blocking" will get worse if nothing is done.

I agree that the NHS is looking very shaky but...

Surely the loss of the bursaries will have been a big factor in the fall in applications?

Surely the loss of the bursaries will have been a big factor in the fall in applications?

I am sure it will have been, so what a stupid thing to do. Make the EU staff feel unwelcome and don't make proper provision to train up more to replace staff who are coming up for retirement.

By 'applications' it's meant job applications, not applications to study to be a nurse I think Confused.

Perhaps anecdotal, but we have two Spanish nurses who joined our unit in the last few months (specifically moved to the UK to work with us).

My unit is probably made up of 10% Indian nurses, 20% Philippino nurses, 10% Spanish nurses and 60% British nurses.

Also applications to nursing degrees in the U.K. Have plummeted since tuition fees have being introduced. So can't train enough ourselves, struggling to recruit from abroad. Our hospital had a massive recruitment drive in the Philippines, sent staff over there for weeks to do interviews, etc. Employed about 100, so relocation costs, etc. A year later there's only two still here. Hospital have said they won't do it again, it cost them a fortune.

I work in a school and this school year (i.e. Post Brexit) out of 6 new staff, 3 are from the EU.

Wouldn't most of those have interviewed before the vote bestthing?

Channel 4 documentary looking at the NHS recruitment crisis and how brexit is making it worse:

www.channel4.com/info/press/news/brexit-crisis-on-the-wards-channel-4-dispatches

But all nursing courses are massively oversubscribed so surely we need to increase places - here, dozens apply for one place so the shortage isn't necessarily due to lack of interest

Yes just checked and this year even with the drop, there were still 10,000 more applications than places

Australia does NOT treat their workers well. You are treated better in the UK. Our workforce is for the employer, not employee. We are a "fire at will" country. When they implemented the new fire at will law, over 100000 people lost their jobs that day.

Our incomes are not going up in comparison to the cost of living, for a lot of the lower level jobs. My rent goes up more than my cost of living raise a year and I do not get any other raises.

You'll find the doctors and other highly educated people are coming to Australia because their incomes are crazy high with low taxes and really good Family Benefits. Even nurses make a killing here. So do Teachers. Even though we hear nothing but non-stop complaints from Teachers, their salaries are way above the national average.