Surprised it was only 52%

[Corialanusburt]

Just driving past Events City watching people streaming in for a caravanning show and thought Brexit.
This got me thinking about the many groups who might represent the demographic: small business owners, many Tory voters, the disenfranchised, people who just think that the EU is not for us.
It made me wonder how on earth remain actually achieved 48%.

Debbie I don't know anybody who voted Remain out of fear, not one person. I do know a lot of people, including all but one of the young people I have spoken to from all walks of life, who voted for the EU because they valued what it does for them, and the opportunities membership provided, not just the right to live and work in 27 countries but the opportunities for academic and scientific collaboration, for our businesses to build up competitive advantage in global markets (that is particularly within my business community because we work in those markets) , to stand with our neighbours to represent liberal values in the geopolitical order of the world, to be part of a Europe which actively works on behalf of the dusadvantaged in the rest of the world, in countries like Cambodia and Burma where I also have personal connections which mean I know many people who have seen on the ground the real difference the EU can make to people's lives, because of the damage that leaving the EU would, and has, done to Britain's reputation in the world, because of the real difference that the EU made to the Northern Ireland peace process and to improving life there. I could actually go on and on

Leavers like to complain when people generalise their reasons for voting but are happy to do the same in reverse

I hope those under 55 who voted out aren't expecting any kind of state pension.

Um not its not a generalization at all actually i also know plenty of remainers including my own DH whose main motivation was fear the economy would plummet.

They were definalty frightened into voting Remain.

All those things you mentioned we have got - can get and will get by leaving the EU its such a strange brain washing thats coming out - we can only stand by "our neighbours to represent liberal values in the geopolitical order of the world" if we are wedded to the EU

Didn't we stand by them when Hitler invaded Poland and didn't we stand by them as we then let them down by allowing Communism to take over East Europe?

Whose army do you think will take a lead role in any future troubles across the EU or perhaps we will just sit by and watch and problems? What on earth is going to stop students from studying in Europe as they have done for centuries? What on earth is going to stop anyone from going anywhere they wish too - unless you feel filling out a form and paying a small fee is a huge barrier?

Of what little I know I understood of economical impact is that a hard Brexit will mean wiping off 4% of GDP due to the fact that if we don't get to be given equivalent of discounter/free trade deals we are enjoying as part of them being negotiated as EU we will have to pay more in every kind of product which we import.
So in around 2 years time most of the stuff we are buying will be more expensive. From Primark tops to electronic goods.
I hope this is well understood by those who are happy to be free. {rice of freedom is high.

If Britain is hoping to lower corporate taxes to attract business this will take few years to trickle down to economy but prices (which are already higher over all than on the continent) will go still higher.
For some that will mean no foreign holidays but for others much harder day to day managing of bills.

There is more to living, studying and working in another country than filling out a small form.

Debbie how many people you know who moved to study to places where you need to pay full price for university course?

As it turns out Project Fear was pretty much on the money as far as my daughter's job prospects in the UK Science community were concerned since they started to evaporate overnight on 25 June. The job listings started to shrink on that day and have gone down ever since as U.K. Research teams were excluded from EU projects, were subject to increased uncertainty over funding, EU researchers have left taking their projects with them, EU research teams are stipulating job applicants should hold an EU passport, the government has shown no sign of even beginning to close the funding gap between the U.K's government spending on Science research and the rest of the G8 countries (recent announcement increased it from 1.3% of GDP to 1.39%, it is 3% in the rest of the G8 ). Given I am sure we can all see the value of scientific research to ourselves and the economy that is certainly a fear realised.

As it happens the loss of competitive advantage in global markets will probably mean DH and I have to move overseas too, but we are not afraid of that, we will welcome the adventure.

Debbie No, I have good reason to know that all that I wrote will be damaged by EU exit, as a result of my business, community, and philanthropic communities. People I know who are electricians and in other trades currently working in Europe will probably not be able to just fill in a piece of paper and pay a fee to go there. For sure those with the required skills, yes they will leave and go on overseas, as many I know in the NHS have already done, but the opportunities for those without the necessary skills will be trapped here. As I say in a range of industries employers in the EU p, particularly Science and tech are already stipulating to job applicants, that an EU passport is required.

Yes we have diluted the power of the EU in world politics. What do you think Trump will be asking for in return for his precious trade deal? A distinct possibility that he will demand we stand with him and let Russia move in on more of the Balkans? As far as China were concerned they did not want Brexit because they wanted a strong united Europe to stand as a balance between the superpowers. I note that Obamas last call was to Merkel because he understands who is left to stand up for liberal values.

As to global business the people I deal with in Asia do business with the UK because of it's access to EU markets. Already they do quite a bit more business with Germany in terms of goods, but we have the edge in services, which are remember 73 % of our economy and one of only two industry sectors in trade surplus, the other is Science and Tech. Whatever shitty trade deal we get with the EU services will suffer, and that competitive edge will be lost. That is what our businesses are actively planning for, and why they will move people into Europe

And Northern Ireland? Please fill me in on how we preserve peace in Northern Ireland once the GFA is undermined by Brexit?

I live in Cambridge where 75% of our turnout voted remain. Therefore I am surprised that 52% of the turnout voted to leave.

As someone has posted already it was in fact 37.5% of the voters eligible to vote.

Do you know what pisses me off the most about Brexit?

All the fucking time, money and resources this utterly pointless divorce is going to take up, which could be better spent on about a million other things.

Brexit is by far the stupidest thing to happen to the UK in my lifetime.

Yes to all of that Yokouhoh.

'But the big question is not what people would vote now, but what they would vote in three or five years time'

Exactly. All these people saying 'oh look the sky hasn't fallen in therefore Brexit is great' do seem a bit dense. Brexit has not happened yet! Five years from now the economic climate will be very different.

I agree, Yoko. Given that no-one knows how we're going to move forward, apart from spouting nonsense like 'Brexit Means Brexit', I doubt anyone has sat down and done a proper estimate of the actual costs of Brexit, even now - 7 months after the vote. And I don't mean the cost to our economy of any future lost trade etc, but the administrative and legal costs of this exercise. I imagine it would be more than enough to fund the NHS for a good many years - assuming the Tories wanted to fund it, rather than sell off the profitable parts to their cronies.