If you made your life here, why didn't you become a British citizen?

[DorothyL]

How do you respond to that as an EU citizen?

I came to the UK in 98. I never applied for British citizenship because I didn't see the need - I truly felt that the fact we were all EU meant it didn't matter!

Now I'm scared because in spite of being here so long I would probably not qualify for a permanent residency card because I wasn't working (SAHM/carer).

Wish I knew what will happen

Hi Dorothy, I haven't RTFT (the bridge-dwellers and the racists are out in force tonight and I no longer have the patience) but I am in a similar position to you, though the opposite way round (British abroad).

We moved abroad in 1998 and never bothered with citizenship because there was no need. I don't give a stuff which country gives me a passport, I despise patriotism and nationalism, and Brexit is giving us all a lesson in why.

I'm not familiar with the British rules around PRR, but it would be worth seeking proper advice. Much of what you read on t'internet is bollocks.

We will eventually get round to sorting out citizenship but I'm in no hurry: France is no more going to be capable of ejecting several hundred thousand Brits than the UK will be able to remove 3 million EU citizens. It would be hugely costly, disastrously unpopular, and the present British government couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery let alone processing 3 million residency applications. It'll take decades, if it ever happens.

I've sorted out citizenship for my kids, so they don't have to worry about university fees etc, and eventually I'll get round to doing mine but I have better things to think about in the meantime.

Can you imagine ferry loads of elderly people who moved here in the fifties and sixties being sent back to Greece, Ireland, Italy etc. possibly with no living family left there and no means to get a home. Even our current hideous government wouldn't do this ... would they?

Theresa May,as Home Secretary, certainly tried to do so with individuals.
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/18/widow-92-return-south-africa-deportation-battle-myrtle-cothill

Thankfully, after a public outcry the immediate threat was removed
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/05/myrtle-cothill-92-year-old-widow-will-not-be-deported-uk-says and she was subsequently given leave to remain for 2 and a half years.

That is Theresa May for you. Courting the racist UKIP vote because it appeals to her own prejudices. (And yet, she makes oh so much of being a vicar's daughter. Try practising your Christianity Mrs May.)

The sheer nastiness of trying to deport an aged, self-sufficient widow, to a country she hasn't lived in for years, just makes me ashamed to be British.

TM is coming across as a thoroughly indecent human being, with no empathy or compassion. The moment it clicked for me was at the closing speech of the conference. She really believed she was a force for good and was relishing the adoration while getting moved by her own empty rhetoric. She reminded me of every nasty dictator I could think of.

Surely if the UK decides to kick all the EU, non EU citizens out or even massively curtain their rights, we (the other countries) will just do the same to the UK ppl in our countries...so IAnWendy etc what will you say when the boat loads of elderly ppl arrive back on UK shores from Spain, Ireland etc??? .....that they should have put a ring on it too? They are in general contributing nothing to the other economies compared with the majority of ppl discussed on this thread

Ian Wendy is right,
If you dislike this country and it's people why do you want to stay here?
If you want to stay get citizenship.
If people have been here for many years it should have been possible to save up.
I hate this view that " I don't want UK citizenship because I will have to give up the citizenship of my own country". Fine. No problem. Just stop complaining about our system.

So basically you're saying that nobody who isn't a British citizen should be allowed to stay in Britain?

Trying I am still waiting on the other thread for you to answer my point about why there is a shortage of school places, and why it is not the result of immigration. I offered you the respect of explaining the issue in some detail with my local example. I look forward to you showing me equal respect by responding.

You might also like to express respect along with your petty negativity for all the many EU nationals who contribute to our communities, our economy, our preminance in Science and the achievements of our world leading universities. I am sure you would agree that our country would be much poorer without them , not just in terms of tax receipts but in terms of what they contribute to giving Britain a competitive advantage in the world economy and their contributions to making our lives better through our great institutions such as the NHS.

I couldn't give a fig if someone has paid up £1000 for a piece of paper, what matters to me is that I have had a chance to be inspired by world leading academics from the EU, and learnt about literature and history from them (though one has left already as a result of no longer feeling welcome here, our loss is the US's gain), that I have access to Polish builders who actually know what they are doing to maintain my home at a reasonable cost after years of being fleeced by misogynist British cowboys who left bodged jobs that required fixing afterwards, that I have been treated by caring EU nationals who were nurses and doctors through a traumatic life threatening illness and that my children and I have close and faithful friendships with EU nationals who have similar values in terms of working hard and treating others with respect.

If you dislike this country and it's people why do you want to stay here?

Did anyone say they did?

Ah that old chestnut, same as remainers aren't patriotic etc. Good luck with your nationalistic zeal. I've never seen an argument from trying or Wendy that wasn't fundamentally flawed by heir xenophobic outlook on life.

I can't for the life of me see why someone can't feel a deep affection for both the country they were born in and the country that they have chosen to live in later. Particularly if they are in this second country as a result of marrying someone and having a family. Ideally, dual nationality is what would be best, but people thought they had that by belonging to the EU.

Yes, Peregrina, but that contains the misapprehension that people are now becoming all too aware of - being a citizen of an EU member state gives the right to reside in another member state (if exercising a Treaty right) but it doesn't give citizenship there. So it's a long way short of being dual nationality.

When I think about it, Europeans living in Britain at the moment are in better shape than the British. They still have "EU passports" with all the opportunities those offer, and they are overwhelmingly likely to be "grandfathered" in to some sort of ILR situation. It is people holding only British passports who have the least options and the most risk.

It is people holding only British passports who have the least options and the most risk.

This annoys me, and is something I don't think I can do anything about. I can't rustle up any Irish grandparents or anything. For the Leavers, it's no problem, because that's what they want.

"I said that my ex husband who lives here tells our children that English people are all stupid,"

Is the ex Scottish or Welsh?

On a more serious note, it is a strange thing for someone to tell their own children who are half English that the English are stupid. Something more is wrong there if they do.

It is people holding only British passports who have the least options and the most risk

yy to this. It looks as though we'll end up with a situation where highly skilled brits won't be able to work in the EU but also can't deport the millions of unskilled EU workers that are already here.

Yeah cause a huge percentage of the workforce here are unskilled you know with 60 percent of them being degree educated and that.

It is people holding only British passports who have the least options and the most risk.

I have 4 English children aged 10 and under and I am spitting angry about this whole mess.

This is their futures being corroded and limited. And for what?

Fuck knows Dudley. It's the most idiotic self-harm.

Nathan On the contrary, aside from Smallfox's valid point I think you will find the EU, and indeed the rest of the world, will be only too pleased to take the highly skilled Brits and EU nationals who are the source of our competitive advantage in the global economy. Scientists and academics are already leaving as a result of Brexit,Doctors and nurses started to drain from the NHS because of government policy even before that, and the younger generation of Scientists are already planning their careers abroad because opportunities have dried up here. As to what happens if we lose the EU passport I am sure there will be a huge demand for financial services professionals from those economies seeking to compete with the City, and many more will move with their jobs. Other economies not tied up with the blind obsession with immigration are a little better at responding to the economic need for talent. We are beginning to make the US look open.

Whatwould, there is a severe shortage of school places in some parts of the country. London is one example that I have first hand knowledge of.
You ask me, up thread, to explain why this shortage is not the result of immigration. Obviously I cannot explain why this is not the result of immigration when it seems blindingly obvious that it IS the result of immigration.

Trying And we would all have to accept black is white if you believed it by the same logic. I have highlighted on the other thread my direct experience of the failures of LEAs in terms of priorities and responding to demand, the problems with implementation of government dogma on Free Schools, shortage of sites and a host of practical difficulties that have got in the way of the fact that funding follows the pupil regardless of where they were born and that we parents wherever we come from fund through the taxes we pay. Our LEA provide state secondary places for half the 11 year olds in the borough, how can that be the result of immigration as opposed to long term planning failures? But OK you "believe" it so it must be so

blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2016/10/19/patriotism-last-refuge-of-a-scoundrel-or-foundation-of-a-healthy-trading-state/

For many, patriotic sentiment is anathema to global thinking. Being patriotic in a global world is seen as a badge of backwardness: as something distasteful, emotional and unsophisticated. Patriotism and international openness are commonly thought to be at odds with one another – one is either a patriot or a citizen of the world. Yet history shows that there is no need to choose. Patriotism and outward orientation can be successfully combined. Patriotism is not the thing we have to fear. It is our failure to value it and to show how it can be successfully combined with outward orientation that is the problem.

and later

To defeat the dark side of patriotism, we don’t have to defeat patriotism itself. Instead, we have tomake sure that patriotism is combined with outward orientation, along with the international “rules of the game” that ensure these interactions are market-based.

On that note, I do not believe you need to hold a British passport to be a British patriot. Nor do I believe that you are not a patriot if you are British and consider yourself a citizen of the world.

All you have to do, is be invested and committed to Britain's long term future. And this can be in many, many ways.

Trying, it isn't due to immigration, we knew in 2010 that there was a need for more school places, this hasn't been provided due to austerity and sending money to pet projects, check out Michael Gove's spending £45 million to buy at set up the Harris 6th form in Westminster, how many school places could that have provided?

I have first hand experience of London, both in sending children to school, working in one, and being part of the group commisioned to set up two new schools. Immigration is not the factor that causes there to be shortages in London schools.

If you are anti immigration I suggest you get the fuck out of London, you know seeing as its been built on immigration since the year dot.

Trying So you have two people here who have given up their time and energy to the creation of new school places in London and have direct experience of the issues. I would be really interested in how and why you know differently?

The number of school places available is determined by how many are made available by government and local authorities - not by how many children there are to fill them.

In any sensible school system, there would be an obligation on local authorities to create places as required. I will be moving next spring, just before my DS enters high school. The local council will be obliged to give him a place. I don't even have to apply until June, because the system is so simple: if you live in catchment you get a place, if a place does not exist it is created. This even applies to immigrants like me!