If you made your life here, why didn't you become a British citizen?

[DorothyL]

How do you respond to that as an EU citizen?

I came to the UK in 98. I never applied for British citizenship because I didn't see the need - I truly felt that the fact we were all EU meant it didn't matter!

Now I'm scared because in spite of being here so long I would probably not qualify for a permanent residency card because I wasn't working (SAHM/carer).

Wish I knew what will happen

'I've had ILR for 10+ years. As long as I don't leave Britain for more than 24 months this cannot be revoked.'

Not true I'm afraid. It can be revoked if the Home Secretary feels that your deportation is conducive to the public good (e.g. if you are convicted of a crime which can result in imprisonment). Clearly it's an unlikely event, but again.. who knows what can happen to the law, or to you in the future? Why not eliminate all chance and get the citizenship (assuming there are no other barriers). I have attended citizenship ceremonies and you would not be the only person there who didn't feel British.. a lot of the participants spent the ceremony checking their phones!

It's not bullying if you say something ridiculous and people tell you it's ridiculous.

I am British, but I have lived abroad since the age of 3, in various EU countries. Until now, it has never been a problem as I was a European in Europe. I'd be interested to know what Wendy would suggest in my case; should I get citizenship of each country as I go along? Unfortunately, that's simply not an option

I have not said anything ridiculous. I said that my ex husband who lives here tells our children that English people are all stupid, and that other people who have chosen to make their home in London have also been rude in the past. that is not 'ridiculous' it is my experience, and who are you to dismiss that?

There are many reasons people don't apply for citizenship. It costs a lot of money and effort. And if you don't need it, there isn't a reason to throw £2k away, is there?

Exactly! And surely that's what the EU was all about? Freedom of movement, freedom to live in another EU state. Freedom to be French, but resident in Sweden, German but resident in the UK, Slovenian but resident in Italy. Until the past two (crazy) years no-one thought the UK would leave the EU. So why blow a load of money on something unnecessary? How many of the Brit retirees in Spain have taken Spanish citizenship, I wonder? And most of them have no intention of ever returning 'home'.

OP I understand your reasons, but I'm baffled that you don't qualify for citizenship. Surely on marriage/long-term residency you qualify? My DH (non-EU migrant), qualified after five years, having come here on spouse visa, then got ILR, then citizenship. Are you sure? (Sorry if that sounds condescending - but I'm nonplussed that someone who's been legally resident here since the late 1990s and is married to a Brit doesn't qualify for citizenship).

Dorothy.. you may qualify (and I think given the time you have lived here it's almost certain we can find a way). I would need more info about your circumstances over the period. Would you like to send me a PM so we can talk it through off of this thread?

That's what I understand to be the law but happy to be corrected. Hoping for Figment's response!

Figment, thank you, will do.

You don't need to have been in employment either for ILR/permanent residence or naturalisation btw.

If the OP had come on saying 'I'm British, been living in Australia for 18 years but I never applied for citizenship' then I am certain people would have been jumping on her saying 'well why didn't you apply for citizenship, you have no-one to blame but yourself.'

Really? We occupy a very different Mumsnet. If a poster was in that situation because the rules had changed after many decades of remaining the same, I'd expect any poster who said that sort of thing to be called out as being staggeringly lacking in empathy.

Just to give everyone some context as to why Dorothy is worried... as an EU citizen you are actually only living here legally if you are exercising a Treaty Right - this is defined as a Worker, Self Employed, Job Seeker, Student, or Self-Sufficient. Technically if you do not fit into one of these categories, then you are not here in accordance with European law. Of course, the Immigration Officer never asks you this at the border, so you can go for years living here not actually in accordance with the law. It's only when you go to make your application for permanent residency you start getting asked to prove how you were exercising your Treaty Rights... which of course is a bit late!

With the added difficulty of needing to prove you had comprehensive health insurance cover even if self-sufficient

Thanks Figment for your sharing of all this useful, factual information

Yes, and many people have told me "but you'll be fine, you're married to Mr Jaws", and then I explain how that's irrelevant. Also, it's about feeling "othered" for the first time, which will not change if I spend £2000 and get a UK passport. I'll still be a "foreigner" not a EU citizen anymore.

and a for Figment.

welshgirlwannabe I too have ILR and don't see the point in getting citizenship. Though I don't want to leave I too don't 'feel British' and don't see anything wrong with that. My (British) DH and his (British) family and all my (British) friends don't seem to see anything wrong with that either.

Thanks figment 😊!

Thanks figment and I understand your concern, but the chances of me committing a crime that leads to imprisonment is very very slim.

I definitely do not want to stay in this country forever, and will have to get citizenship before I leave as yes, my ILR can be nullified by periods abroad.

It just hasn't been an issue yet, and I'm loathe to pay that kind of money on something I don't need.

There's also the issue of the other side of the coin. Freedom of movement cuts both ways. Especially if the pound continues to slide, British workers in the not too distant future may well be the ones wishing they could be "economic migrants".

British nationals risk being trapped in their own country by a terrible combination of emigration restrictions and a very weak currency. It's a case of "be careful what you wish for". The asset rich (such as prominent Leave campaigners - Johnson, Redwood, Desmond, Banks, the creepy sounding Tory whose name escapes me), - they will all be absolutely fine under any system.

But the implications are scary for the rest of us - unskilled and skilled workers alike. Low skilled workers will not have the freedom to eg chase e.g. agriculture or domestic service work elsewhere in Europe, while skilled workers will be "back of the queue" when it comes to competing for jobs for which the ability to work freely in Europe is an advantage.

Even if they have no empathy, I wish Leavers understood the risks for UK nationals and their children of a weak currency, combined with low wages, a reduced tax take and the inability to travel overseas freely to find work. There is a certain insular smugness that assumes that we will always be prosperous. It's a lose-lose situation for everyone.

Another question figment, I pay into a work pension scheme. What would happen to that money if I decided to move to EU?

One of the criteria of naturalisation is showing your future intentions lie in the UK welshgirl, unless your spouse is a BC, so be careful when you fill the form in! (didn't see if you are married to a BC or not!)

Absolutely Welshgirl, it's all about balances of risk... it is a huge amount of money to spend. Me, I have zero appetite for risk, and a distrust of governments not to change the law quickly :)

figment is it Ian Duncan Smith? Very wealthy too. No concerns for British people who will be trapped in a prison of their own making....

I wonder if Nick Clegg's wife is worried?

(can't remember if she has dual nationality) (probably)

Jaws - no idea I'm afraid... my expertise begins and ends with the immigration law.. your question would be tax/benefits law!