If you made your life here, why didn't you become a British citizen?

[DorothyL]

How do you respond to that as an EU citizen?

I came to the UK in 98. I never applied for British citizenship because I didn't see the need - I truly felt that the fact we were all EU meant it didn't matter!

Now I'm scared because in spite of being here so long I would probably not qualify for a permanent residency card because I wasn't working (SAHM/carer).

Wish I knew what will happen

But May has offered to review visa numbers if India makes more of an effort to take back overstayers?

Yes "review" probably not good enough for one of the most protectionist countries in the world, which is now a bigger economy than ours.

It will happen only a matter of time. Indian industries need access to a global hub economy and London's the one that has most in common with India. Hong Kong, New York, are protectionist in their own ways.

But by the time that happens London may not be as large of a global player, precisely because of the impact of brexit.

London is predicted to be more of a global player towards Asia/Americas. Companies are also betting that the UK will start directly competing with the EU in terms of tax etc which explains why some companies have started to expand their UK operations. US Investment Banks might leave to Europe but it's expected that EU/Asian banks will be given significant carrots to stay and take a possible hit.

Which businesses are extending UK operations?

EU banks may not stay if passporting rights aren't given, same with Asian ones, HSBC might still move entirely, this was a threat even before the referendum was in the pipeline.

Facebook, Google, Apple, HSBC (these are UK expansions after the current redundancies are complete). HSBC have also said they will stop their historical 4 year HQ reviews as they don't view Brexit impacts as a long term downside to a UK HQ

Purplebluebird, just wanted to let you know that I think you have misunderstood the Norwegian rules on dual citizenship. It will not make any difference if you marry a Brit, you would still have to give up your Norwegian citizenship to become British. Norway only allows dual citizenship in a very few cases, for example for children who automatically becomes both a UK and Norwegian citizen at birth. The only case in which marriage would make a difference, would be if you automatically had become a UK citizen by marrying a British man, which is not the case.

You can read about it here: www.udi.no/en/word-definitions/dual-citizenship/

You will not lose your Norwegian citizenship if you have been granted a new citizenship without having asked for it, and, in such cases, you will have dual citizenship. This can happen in some countries, for example because you have married. If, on the other hand, you have applied for or clearly accepted citizenship in another country, you will normally lose your Norwegian citizenship.

The Brexit vote was in part won by an anti-immigrant stance. Just imagine if 20 years down the line we have fewer EU (predominantly white, Christian) immigrants but have more Asian Muslims! It will most definitely be what the Farage tendency did not vote for.

I woldn't claim Apple or Google as wins after brexit, both were planned well in advance. All of the things you've cited aren't relocations from somewhere else,but either going along with current plans or expansion of current operations.

Whilst at the same time several firms have left the UK. Oh and none of those companies you cited will be paying much tax here.

Oh and none of those companies you cited will be paying much tax here.

I think that was what DailyFail was arguing - the country would become a tax haven, so more chance for wealthy firms to dodge tax.

Oh and that's supposed to be a good ting?

Right...

DailyFail London is already a global player towards Asia / America, and the EU passport was part of the competitive advantage in some sectors.

Obviously not the UK high street operations of HSBC who are no more an Asian bank than Swires / Cathay or Jardines are Asian companies. Western companies focused on Asian markets, yes, and exploiting asian connections / power networks and cultural insight , but western nonetheless.

China has already been very vocal that it will direct it's financial sector business into Europe, if the UK loses the passport, unlikely the City will retain the Yuan operations for instance. It is already closer to Merkel in spite of the Osborne brownnosing.

Some sectors will gain, private banking, wealth management for instance are looking forward to deregulation and being able to wheeler deal more on behalf of the world's criminals and oligarchs. I am sure there are a fair few traders and hedge fund managers toking forward to returning to the buccaneering ways of the 80s.

However the real meat of the city of London, not just American banks but the likes of UBS (who are also one of the bigger players in Asia) are known to be almost certain to go. They will take their big dick swinging front office bankers off to Paris or wherever but in my London suburb, most people are not that. They are in middle management back office roles, in service industries that provide them with business to business services, and then on the back of that there are all the SMEs (small businesses ) that survive on the back of their salaries.

Over Christmas it has struck me that we are already back in the 80-s and 90s in terms of the numbers of homeless on our streets, Cardboard city is building back up at Waterloo.. It is such bollocks to other London as somewhere that is not a cross section of British society and one where life is going to be much bleaker post Brexit and post having a workforce that are diverse and skilled.... And that will translate into less tax income to support the rest of the country... I don't argue that the UK wasn't unbalanced but shooting all our assets was not the answer

Over Christmas it has struck me that we are already back in the 80-s and 90s in terms of the numbers of homeless on our streets, Cardboard city is building back up at Waterloo..

We've noticed that in Oxford too. Doorways occupied at night by the homeless, when they weren't 10 years ago.

if you like it then you should have put a ring on it.

No, it's telling people who thought they'd got 'married' (ie exercised their legal right to reside in the UK) that unless they'd got the apparently unnecessary and extraneous eternity ring (citizenship) that they will be divorced against their will!

I agree about being back in the 1980s. In my little Zone 2 enclave there has always been an element of homelessness, but its much more common now.

Its funny how when the funding for homeless services halves, homlessness doubles.

Just to add that I have noticed a significantly increase in homelessness in Cambridge too. It reminds me of the early 1990s...

To those who think EU immigrants should have "put a ring on it" - does that apply to me too? I'm from Ireland but now live in Northern Ireland. All NI citizens have dual citizenships, but I don't. I don't think I should have foreseen that my right to live here would be at risk after nine years of employment, and for five of which I have been married to (NI and thus British citizen, despite what his passport says) DH?

It is going to be some job to sort all of these situations out. I am worried that this will not be done properly.

I've not heard Brexiters say much about Northern Ireland but then again it is an incredibly complex aspect of Brexit particularly in the context of the Good Friday Agreement.

The reason not to apply for citizenship? Aside from the £2k fees?

From the government website:
"EU nationals who have lived continuously and lawfully in the UK for at least 5 years automatically have a permanent right to reside. This means that they have a right to live in the UK permanently, in accordance with EU law. There is no requirement to register for documentation to confirm this status."

So there is no need to spend the money on this at the moment and dh comes from a country that does not allow dual nationality at 21 years old. Otoh we want to apply for dual nationality for the dc (at the moment they have only British nationality through me). We want to ensure we can still provide them with the opportunities that having access to the European Union would allow, so we'll delay any decision to get citizenship for dh until we can secure the dc a future where they have more options available to them.

No better.

'There is no requirement to register for documentation to confirm this status' (Permanent Residency paper).

This is the whole point , there is no requirement but if you want the piece of paper to confirm your status, there is an 85 page documents (mostly meant for non EU expatriates) and all kind of restrospective requirements ...all this for a paper which is not legally required to reside in the UK...

The paper is for safety because
the UK Government might change its stance overnight even if illegal.
For instance they have recently blocked unilaterally and without notice some British, Italian and French Expats (residing in UK) private pension funds so that these peopke cannot take their pensions out of the UK if they need to leave the UK after Brexit. This issue has been brought up by some French MP's in Paris as in breach of Treaties. The Treasury refused to comment.

Bottom line the UK can do what they like even if immoral; best to protect yourself.

Nobetter

Various legislations were put in place in 2015 to ensure that many people would not be eligible for British Citizenship .

One of those was the requirement to prove your EU status in the UK prior to applying for British Citizenship.

So, you do not need legally to prove your EU status in the UK because you are legally residing in the UK but if you want to apply for British Citizenship, you must prove your EU Permanent Residence status which in itself is not a legal requirement!!!

And of course, the 85 page and various new requirements are meant to trip you up . Therefore you are advised to pay an immigration lawyer just to confirm that you have the EU permanent residence status which you have anyway.
(My lawyer is charging me £2000). This is just to obtain a player document that is not legally required!!!

Am rambling a bit this morning-sorry- need third coffee.

Why??
Because I didn't need to.
Lots of British people don't have passports. Why? Because they are not travelling abroad so they don't need to.

Why am I not applying yet?

Because despite being here for 11 years and a half, married to a Brit, I spent 1 year working abroad in a developing country.

Came back 4 years ago.

So in theory, being married to a Brit I could apply for citizenship as I need 3 years of continuous residency (as a qualified resident=employed) which I have.

However! Since they couldn't change this rule, they added a new rule (which is being disputed as unlawful by many legal professionals)
The rule is that to apply for citizenship (I need 3 years) I also now need a permanent residency card that I can only obtain after 5 years. How is that possible?

And to make things better, I am now on maternity leave so there is a chance I need to pay for private health insurance which I dont get because I am still employed.

So. Apart from having to fill in an 85 pages document, having to wait another year, having to somehow find proof of all my income and travels for 11 years I have to:
Pay £85 for card app
Pay £1400 for health insurance
Pay £2000 for citizenship app (exams/ fees to check documents included)

So yeah, all this for something I dont need as I am a legal migrant, a legal alien, a legal employee.

THERE

Yeah! Totally agree with you evergreen.

The proof of all my travels outside the UK since 1977 baffles me.
This includes day trips to Calais, etc.!! I just do not have a clue how to answer for that one (lawyer will have to work something out).Because passports do not get stamped if you have been travelling in the EU and one has not kept every single return tickets for each single journey to the Continent (30km crossing) for the last 40 years..
I just do not understand how they are alllowed to ask the travel question when we have Freedom of Movement!

Loco argh what's that about blocking pension funds?