Caroline Lucas is attempting to get Proportional Representation back on the agenda. If you agree, please support her.

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Tomorrow (the 20th) Caroline Lucas will be putting forward a 10 minute rule bill proposing that Proportional Representation and the reduction of the minimum voting age to 16 become a fully fledged parliamentary bill. If you agree, please write to your MP.

ukgeneralelection2020.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/ask-your-mp-to-vote-for-caroline-lucass.html?m=1

Tiggytape - you're right, I was meaning the 2015 election. Don't know why I typed 2011

I'd like to see House of Lords become a proportional rep. chambre of about 400 individuals, basically Billy Bragg's proposed plan. I would support any strong push for that.

The thing about FPTP is that it ties MPs to specific constituents they have to be accountable to, and to their local concerns. This is very important, too.

I'm not a fan of 16yos voting (I have a 16yo in the house).

And I'd be happy for 16 year olds to have the vote.

They're old enough to leave school, get married, have babies, join the armed forces... - why shouldn't they have a say in the governance of the country?

I listen to the political arguments put forward by my 15 year old ds (nearly 16) and they're articulate and thought through. He has strong opinions on Trump, Clinton, the EU, independence, Trident, Islam, the media reporting of terrorist atrocities and historically on Mandela and Gandhi - not all of which I agree with, but I respect his right to argue his opinion. I wish I were as confident that all the electorate thought through their votes.

Being in Scotland, he'll be able to vote in Holyrood and Council elections (and Indyrefs ) but not for Westminster elections not that the Scottish MPs can make any difference He'll have thought through his vote more than many some.

Yes a lot of 16 year olds are very aware of social and political issues even more so than many adults. And if they are deemed old enough and mature enough to fight for their country, they ought to have a say in its affairs.

They aren't deemed mature enough to go to a war zone - they have to be 18, so a non-argument.

I think this demonstrates one of the issues that the Greens have in general. They have some good policies, but lumping them in together with ones that are less popular doesn't do them any favours.

Why PR and 16/17 yr old voters?

Anecdotally, I know voters of different parties who did so because 'my vote doesn't count anyway'.

How should someone vote who thinks a particular candidate would make an excellent MP for local people, but disagrees with the party and/or the leader? Are we supposed to vote for people, or for parties?

I can see in some ways PR is a reasonable proposal, but considering UKIP were the third most popular party at the last election, with 12.6% of the vote, I'm not sure it's such a good idea. Currently they have just 1 MP, but with PR they'd have over 80!

I'm definitely in favour of pushing for Lords reform, and it's an interesting idea to have PR in the Lords.

I'm not in favour of 16 year olds voting. They don't have as much life experience or maturity as an 18 year old. If you lower it to 16, then the 14-15 year olds will want to have a go. We all get a vote after we're 18, let's leave it at that.

I know some people who voted UKIP as a 'protest vote' because they knew that their vote would make no difference, in a very blue area.

We have no idea how many votes UKIP would get under a PR system. Although having said that, the amount of leave voters who I've heard did so because they 'didn't think we'd actually leave' perhaps suggests that people would be similarly ignorant.

I don't believe that UKIP would have had 80+ seats under a PR system. More than one, yes but not over 80.

I don't believe that UKIP would have had 80+ seats under a PR system. More than one, yes but not over 80.

Yes, I thought after I'd posted that I should have said "could have" not "would have".

12.6 per cent of 650 seats is 81.9, so if they had got 12.6 per cent of the overall vote at the last election, UKIP would now have 82 MPs. It's true that we don't know how many would vote differently if we had PR, but that works both ways as tiggytape says. There may be people who voted UKIP as a "tactical" vote who would rather vote for a different party. But there may also be people who would vote for UKIP if they thought their vote would count, in what is usually a Tory/Labour constituency.

leave voters who I've heard did so because they 'didn't think we'd actually leave'

Or who voted remain but are pretending to "regret voting leave" to try to discredit the result? Or who voted remain for spurious reasons?

Yep, all this tactical voting, protest voting, whatever just makes it all ridiculous and we have no idea of how many people actually support any of the parties.

We have a form of PR in Wales and I still had to vote tactically.

(In the Welsh Assemly elections )

On 16yr olds and channeling my inner B'stard, No representation without taxation.
16yr olds (and you could argue up to 25) only have experience of school and living with parent's supporting them. With compulsory education (of some sort) to 18 and 50%+ going to university, they have no knowledge of the issues as lived, rather than as read about, which gives more power to the main stream media.

We have PR in Scotland for the Holyrood and UKIP still managed NOT to win a single seat.

However, to our shame unfortunately they did manage to get the 6th and final seat for the Scotland region in the European elections the laughing stock David Coburn - only because the SNP already had 2 MEPs so under the PR system, David Coburn then squeezed in.

I'm a Green.

I voted against AV when we had the chance under the Lib Dems, but now, after Brexit, and DESPITE the fact that PR would benefit loathsome UKIP, I'm a strong supporter.

Of course I, personally, don't want 80 UKIP MPs: it's a horrible thought. BUT if that is what people are voting for, then I think it's wrong to have a system that denies them representation. The FPP system has allowed the major parties to lose touch with people who don't much like them, with total impunity.

I need to look and see how the system would maintain a constituency link, as I feel that is hugely important.

I like the London Assembly system - combination of constituency and list.

PR gave us Neil Hamilton in Wales. I rest my case.

Coalitions are better than what we have.

What is people's problems with them?!?

We've just had a conservative/lib dem coalition. That was a roaring success.

To be fair, the Libdems have done a pretty good job at restraining the worst the Tories wanted to do - as can be seen by how bad it got once they libdems were out of the picture. Punishing the junior partner in a coalition for not be able to negotiate to keep all manifesto commitments is bizarre. What was achieved by that other than having an unrestrained outright Tory government.

The need for compromise and negotiation is exactly what makes coalitions a good thing, rather than a negative

The need for compromise and negotiation is exactly what makes coalitions a good thing, rather than a negative

This. Why is it that we always expect ourselves and our children to make compromises, but then get annoyed when politicians do exactly that!

I voted against AV when we had the chance under the Lib Dems, but now, after Brexit, and DESPITE the fact that PR would benefit loathsome UKIP, I'm a strong supporter.

I am the opposite of you, whenwillsummer! I voted for AV but can't imagine ever supporting it again. What the referendum has taught me is how little the average person understands about the way things work. Until there is better political education, then I think PR would be an absolute disaster - and it would benefit the right wing hugely.
Israel, is a perfect example of a country where tiny parties wield disproportionate power...I would hate to see that here.

Helmetbymidnight

There are other countries though, right? How does Germany do it?

Well each country has its unique political culture.
Perhaps German population is more secular, better educated and there are more safeguards now against extremist groups-
I really don't think now- with a resurgence of racism - is the time for pr in the uk - I think focussing on it (especially just after the lib dem referendum pr fail just a few years ago) fails to address the bigger issues we are facing.