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Brexit

Brit Science Minister to probe Brexit bias against UK-based scientists

72 replies

LurkingHusband · 13/07/2016 13:47

www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/13/uk_science_minister_to_investigate_discrimination_cases_against_british_scientists_after_brexit/

Jo Johnson, the Minister of State for Universities and Science, has announced that that he has set up an email account to receive evidence that UK scientists have been discriminated against after Brexit.

A confidential survey of the UK’s Russell Group universities found cases where British researchers were being asked to give up their leadership roles and were being dropped from EU projects for fear of being a “financial liability”, The Guardian reported.

Worries that Britain may be an unattractive partner due to funding issues have spread. The paper relates one case of an EU project officer advising that all UK researchers be ousted from a project as their funding may not be guaranteed, and could delay the project which is due to start in 2017.

Speaking at a Science and Technology Committee meeting this morning, Johnson said he wanted to turn any “anecdotal evidence” of discrimination into “concrete evidence”.

“I’m still waiting for hard concrete evidence - but I’m not saying [discrimination] is not happening,” said Johnson.

Professor Phillip Nelson, Chair of Research Councils UK, also a witness at the meeting, said he had seen cases where scientists were afraid of working in the UK.

He spoke of an email he had received which said that the University of Glasgow was having a hard time attracting a “top physicist” because the physicist feared their projects may not be funded.

But whether these were “knee-jerk reactions” post-Brexit was hard to say, Nelson said.

Johnson said he had spoken to Carlos Moedas, the European Commissioner for Research, Science and Innovation. A spokesperson on Moedas’ team said that the validity of the UK in Horizon 2020, Europe’s largest research and innovation funding programme, remains unchanged.

A “vast majority” of funding comes from Horizon 2020 for innovation programmes, said Kevin Baughan, Chief Development Officer at Innovate UK, which reports to the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (BIS). He estimated that €680m had been spent into business and innovation, making the UK the second highest recipient after Germany.

Baughan warned that the UK “cannot afford to have a two year pause” in participation with EU projects if it wanted to stay at the forefront of innovation.

Any formal negotiations with the EU will not begin until after Article 50 is triggered, at which point the UK will have two years to negotiate arrangements for its breakup with the EU, including the outlining of any future relationship

Colour me surprised !

OP posts:
BadToTheBone · 19/07/2016 15:33

My sister is a scientist, she works or rather worked heavily in Europe. By the Monday morning they'd been shut out of the EU negotiations. So now we'll still be held to EU standards and regulations but will no longer have a say in what they are. Just insane to give that away.

BadToTheBone · 19/07/2016 15:40

Sorry, not really on topic but my twopenneth worth, lol

LurkingHusband · 19/07/2016 16:01

My sister is a scientist, she works or rather worked heavily in Europe. By the Monday morning they'd been shut out of the EU negotiations. So now we'll still be held to EU standards and regulations but will no longer have a say in what they are. Just insane to give that away.

What part of "taking back control" don't you like ?

OP posts:
BadToTheBone · 19/07/2016 16:41

Is it "taking back control", seems to me we're giving it away.

LurkingHusband · 19/07/2016 17:02

Is it "taking back control", seems to me we're giving it away.

You must be mistaken. I feel more empowered than ever.

Apparently.

OP posts:
FoggyBottom · 19/07/2016 17:27

I feel more empowered than ever.

Terrifically empowered to apply for non-existent research funding ...

FoggyBottom · 19/07/2016 17:27

It's fun, isn't it? Hmm

caroldecker · 19/07/2016 17:59

No issues really. List of non-EU countries in Horizon 2020:

Iceland
 Norway
 Albania
 Bosnia and Herzegovina
 the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia
 Montenegro
 Serbia
 Turkey
 Israel
 Moldova
 Switzerland (partial association, see below)
 Faroe Islands
 Ukraine
 Tunisia
 Georgia

whatwouldrondo · 19/07/2016 18:05

Oh Carol, taking refuge in ignorant simplicity again?

TheElementsSong · 19/07/2016 19:14

So is Carol going for the "denial that this is happening" approach then?

LordRothermereBlackshirtCunt · 19/07/2016 19:17

Experts are saying this is happening. No one should listen to what they have to say.

FoggyBottom · 19/07/2016 19:20

In order for these countries to participate in H2020, their governments must guarantee freedom of movement. Switzerland tried to impose limits, and their participation was pretty swiftly curtailed.

caroldecker · 19/07/2016 19:36

Foggy Turkey has no freedom of movement.

I agree that certain scientists are suggesting they should not have UK people on the applications, but the EU has stated that there is no change or prejudice in applications for funding which are from the UK or include UK institutions.
So this is basically EU scientists having a go at UK scientist, nothing to do with EU or UK actions.

freetrampolineforall · 19/07/2016 19:41

It's all fine. It's great. I'mfinally empowered. It's brilliant. Stop being so negative with all your facts. Honestly it's fine. Better than ever. Seriously it's all going to be brilliant ... [exhausted by all the Pollyanna bullshit ]

whatwouldrondo · 19/07/2016 19:51

Carol Various countries have arrangements in place negotiated on the basis of the balance of power, so there is certainty. For the UK there is no certainty, won't be for years so quite rightly if you need funding to cure Cancer you stick with the certain elements. Which is why there are 346 examples of British teams getting excluded already. Simples.

whatwouldrondo · 19/07/2016 19:54

Of course the government could give certainty but that would concede a bargaining chip , our scientific strength but then in two years time if it is diluted? So they try the nothing has changed angle except it ain't working..... A brief summary of posts to date

caroldecker · 19/07/2016 20:09

whatwouldron I don't deny that EU scientists are using this against the UK, but this is not the UK govt and anyone who thinks we will not be in Horizon 2020 when you look at all the other countries involved is bonkers.

TheElementsSong · 19/07/2016 20:12

So this is basically EU scientists having a go at UK scientist, nothing to do with EU or UK actions.

Right, nothing could ever be due to Brexit. If you have ever applied for grant funding to do research you wouldn't be writing such a blithe post Hmm. Even for the best researchers and the best projects, it is really hard to win grants. It takes months of hard work and planning from multiple groups, generating pilot data, writing detailed applications trying to cover all possibilities to satisfy peer review and committees. For most grants the success rate is below 10%. EU scientists aren't "having a go" at UK scientists, they're being sensible in eliminating confounding factors that could reduce their chances of getting projects funded. Important projects, like cures for diseases or saving us from climate change.

whatwouldrondo · 19/07/2016 20:45

Well a lot of scientists know that they are being sidelined from Horizon 2020, and young scientists are seeing their prospects shrink here, but, you know, all Scientists are mad/ bonkers

FoggyBottom · 19/07/2016 20:47

anyone who thinks we will not be in Horizon 2020 when you look at all the other countries involved is bonkers

So most VCs in this country, as well as Sir Paul Nurse, and many other scientists, and science policy experts who are seriously concerned about the statements coming from UK government & politicians about freedom of movement being stopped - they're all bonkers?

Oh that's right. They're experts . No-one needs to listen to experts.

FoggyBottom · 19/07/2016 20:49

saving us from climate change

Oh but climate change doesn't exist, according to our new Minister for the Environment. We don't need to bother with experts.

geekaMaxima · 19/07/2016 20:58

anyone who thinks we will not be in Horizon 2020 when you look at all the other countries involved is bonkers.

Yes, the UK will probably get Horizon 2020 access at some point, but after how long? It took Turkey years to negotiate their rather weird access agreement after years of partial access to previous Frameworks. It took Israel years to negotiate their access based on freedom of goods.

And of course if the UK plans on negotiating access to the EEA, as most people believe will happen, then it's likely to take priority over Horizon 2020 negotiations (i.e., trade trumps science for most governments) as an EEA agreement will affect the terms of any H2020 agreement (in either the Norway or Switzerland model).

Hence, H2020 access will take years no matter what route the UK ends up taking. It could easily be a decade or more, given how few negotiators the UK actually has to conduct all these deals.

In the meantime, the UK spends years with no access to H2020 funds, UK-based scientists are left out of European grant plans and networks, internationally-mobile academics start leaving the UK because prospects are better elsewhere in Europe, the UK's scientific competitiveness is damaged, and so on, and so on.

But it's all sunshine and light, right? Hmm

TheElementsSong · 19/07/2016 21:24

you look at all the other countries involved is bonkers.

Priceless Grin - sounds like you know better than all those experts. So are you volunteering to collate all the data between collaborative groups, prepare the work plans and write all our grant applications? I mean, all it takes is Positive Thinking right?

Camelfairylights · 19/07/2016 22:42

Also I notice that our new PM has quietly binned the post of Minister for Life Sciences which Cameron had invented (it was George Freeman before).
Not that saying a Minister getting involved could wave any magic wand here but scrapping that post (and widening Jo jonsons brief) doesn't reassure me that sorting any of this mess out is high on the new PM's list politically.Sad

whatwouldrondo · 20/07/2016 11:25

But it is all sunshine and light

More "bonkers" scientists not getting it

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36834045