For distraught remainers who want some hope

[crossroads3]

Prof Grayling (not to be confused with Chris Grayling) has had this unbelievably articulate letter hand delivered to all MPs. I urge everyone who cannot believe what is happening and how it is happening, to write to their MPs urging them to vote against Article 50 being triggered. The reasons are eloquently explained in the linked letter.

www.nchlondon.ac.uk/2016/07/01/professor-c-graylings-letter-650-mps-urging-parliament-not-support-motion-trigger-article-50-lisbon-treaty-1-july-2016/

Can't believe politicians would really fail to do the right thing because of fear of stirring up 'civil unrest'? What has happened to this country?

Just wow. Really not good enough.

'Fear of civil unrest' - also known as 'Project Fear Mark 2' perhaps.

Oh please, can we not use the phrase 'project fear' ever again? What do you even mean by it? I'm not part of any campaign or group, but I do have what I consider to be a rational fear of the reaction of those who voted leave in good faith to find that the rules are just altered to prevent what they voted for happening. A society which loses faith in any form of non-violent participation -does that really sound like a good idea to you? It's like the 2000 US election - of course the recounts should not have been artificially stopped but also it should not have been that close. We should not be in a situation where it's such a knife edge. Why have our newspapers been pumping out non stop anti Eu propaganda for thirty years? Why did we have a soft sceptic as prime minister and a die hard anti EU campaigner as leader of the opposition? Why has Farage topped the poll of SE MEPs for 17 years? We should have seen this coming and to overturn this on a technicality IMO will fix nothing.

The Rule of Law is hardly a 'technicality'

oh good letter. He's given them a get out there. I hope enough MPs take his points on board.

a london prof saying " dont do it" .....

How will that go down in Sunderland?

nope. It is symbolism only

I think the longer we wait the worse the effect on the EU as a whole

It would be about MPs debating for as long as necessary and then voting. That I could accept.

A populist/protest vote is IMO not democracy at work. What else should we ask the people to vote about and would we then accept their verdict regardless of the info they had access to or their understanding of the impact their vote would have? And the same would apply whoever had "won".

Politicians should be working to put right the inequalities in our society instead of carrying on with the unedifying spectacle of this past week. These inequalities are not the fault of the EU.

General elections include everyone. Yes, even if they opt for a protest vote and/or are working class ("populist" )

But our system does not allow their voice to be heard due to first past the post. I am not saying this is a good thing, it's not. I want PR.

But how come we have been allowed PR on such a momentous irreversible decision when we are not allowed it in GEs which 5 years later are reversible? A momentous decision where we were asked a yes / no question about something so complex. Without knowing what no would look like. The chief proponents of no had NO plan.

I am part of the "populace" a lot of whom did not understand enough about the EU and what would happen if a majority voted out - myself included.

Add to this the lies about the £350 million, Farage's dog whistling campaign, and the lies about the free of movement of people that will have to continue if we want free trade in the EU - I think a lot of people have been misled.

Populist does not mean working class.

Added to which in a GE, even if my vote is a protest vote, I vote for an MP who broadly speaking I think will vote certain ways on certain issues. I am not being asked to vote on highly complex bills. That's their job and what they are paid to so.

Populist doesn't always mean working class, but it certainly can.

www.dictionary.com/browse/populism

Some of the recent arguments insisting that only the "educated" should vote, or that people should have to pass a test on the "facts" (whose facts?) are clearly divisive.

The remain side had their own ways of misleading people, which have been discussed a lot on other threads.

I find it concerning the extent to which some people are trying to redefine democracy.

True democracy is exercised by the people or their representatives. Not one step removed, i.e. commissioners chosen by those we elect. And not removing votes from those who vote for inconvenient things (I heard someone on the radio yesterday saying that older people should have 1 vote whereas young people should have 1.5 votes)!

I know that there was "project fear" on the remain side.

I certainly wouldn't say that young people should have a weighted vote or that only the educated can vote.

I would subscribe to a representative rather than a direct democracy, where MPs are however elected by a PR voting system.

I meant populist as in we are all part of the populace.

I think this article puts the whole thing well:

www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/brexit-democratic-failure-for-uk-by-kenneth-rogoff-2016-06