married to a Brit, here for 18 years

[DorothyL]

Do I really need to apply for British citizenship, or can I wait and see?

Johnson spoke about rights but he has no authority to decide, so as far as I'm concerned his words meant absolutely nothing!

The sickness insurance bit will almost certainly have to be clarified, as it sounds as if it was aimed for countries which have an insurance-based system whether in whole or in part. In UK, it's NHS, based on residency, not nationality.

I think there's going to have to be a specific new procedure for other EU resident in UK, and UK resident elsewhere in EU at the time A50 is invoked. The current ones (either ours or those of other members states) aren't going to do well with the volume, and people need more certainty.

I'm pondering the same thing from an opposite point of view (British citizen living in the EU, having worked here for 8 years).

Don't really want to apply for citizenship here as the process is so lengthy, time consuming, fiddly, expensive etc. Plus ideologically I still feel British/European (oh the irony) more than I do the nationality here, and want to return to live in the UK at some point.

However, I don't want to get caught out later down the line either and realise I've left it too late to get nationality in time if it becomes clear it would be the best option despite the above inconveniences.

I am betting for the moment that we are going to end up in a Norway/Switzerland/Iceland agreement re: freedom of movement. Here where I live at least, people from those countries have exactly the same rights to live and work in any EU country as a 'real' EU citizen, with no extra conditions/visas/green cards/paperwork etc.

I think very probably nothing will change. I take it as a given that there is no way we wont be doing everything and anything to keep acess to the single market and London's financial passport. So will be keeping an eye on everything that is said re: whether there is a cat's chance in hell of getting that without accepting freedom of movement - doesnt look like it to me.

From the CAB website:

'The UK public has voted to leave the EU. This means it’s likely that some laws will change in the future - but not immediately.
Everything will stay the same until new laws are made.
If you’re an EU citizen living in the UK, your rights to live, work or get benefits won’t change unless the government passes new laws.'

I'm one of these people who really don't thrive in uncertainty, and it's affecting me. I do get it's not anyone's priority in this mess we're in.

Thistledew's French lady would probably qualify because of her marriage, her future intentions (subjective, but almost always taken into consideration) and her ties to the UK (again, her husband and her children)

There is always quite a long "changeover" period. Things were put into place for Hong Kong as early as 1990, for example.

The problems, as others have said, will doubtlessly be for those who have been in the UK only briefly, those who are there still looking for work, etc etc.

chantico - it has already been clarified in UK case law that independent comprehensive sickness insurance is required, and entitlement to NHS treatment is not sufficient.

The problem with my French lady example is that she does not qualify under any of the current immigration rules (or may possibly if her spouse is earning over £18,600 per annum). So new laws would have to written that are substantially more generous than those currently in force. Maybe it will happen but a) it is against the current trend of government policy and b) there will still be people who will lose out and have fewer rights than they do now.

Dorothy, I am in a situation. Here for 27 years, EU passport, still married (although separated). I am applying for the Permanent Resident Card, just in case. The form has 85 pages but you only need about 40 of them, so do read it before you print it all. You need to send your ID card or passport with it, so plan accordingly

I fear it may be the other way round, Mixety. The Tory party seems to be taking it that immigration trumps all else:
Take Stephen Crabb declaring he's is standing for leadership:
His first aim for the EU renegotiation was controlling immigration, he said. “For us this is a red line: the one message that came through louder than any other in the vote last week is that the British people want to control immigration.”

I am a bit like that French lady... Came here in 98, student for a year, worked for two years, then 12 years at home, employed again since 2013. British husband, dual citizen children.

So with that background I might be in trouble?

Given the amount of trouble they have finding their arse with an atlas removing criminals and people clearly not allowed to be here now, are they actually going to bother with the effort and cost of trying to remove the thousands of people who have been here legally working or raising families for years or just put it in the too difficult pile?

They might not remove anyone, but simply not giving them the right to work would be quite effective at removing them.

Or not giving them the right to use the NHS or access any benefits.

And by benefits I mean child benefit, working/child tax credits, pensions.

DorothyL - from what you have written here it may well be the case that you don't currently qualify for a right of permanent residence, but as you are working you do have a current right to reside here. I would suggest getting some decent legal advice so you can be clear as to what your options are.

I really wish I could point to something in the current immigration laws and say "I'm sure it will be fine", but that is just not the reflection of the current immigration policy in this country.

I'm so sorry for the stress that this must cause to you and your family

I'm being naive perhaps but doesn't the fact that the OP is married is that not enough to protect her?

Nope. No automatic rights for spouses, that is long gone.

Lizzie - unfortunately not. It should mean that she can apply for a spouse visa under the domestic rules if her husband is earning over £18,600 per annum, but that would not qualify her for indefinite leave to remain in her own right. She would be dependent on remaining married and him
continuing to earn that salary.

I'm worried about my family. DP is an EU and Canadian citizen. We aren't married. He's only been in the UK for 2 years, so by the time we exit, assuming it takes 2 years from October 2016, he's still going to be short of the 5 year residency. We own a home here and our children are dual British/Canadian. Will he have to leave? He doesn't qualify for the permanent residence card yet, but I assume we can get the registration cert? Will getting married help?

If a person applies for citizenship of their current country of residence does this mean they have to lose their current citizenship?

gnome depends on the laws in their host and birth countries. Some countries allow dual citizenship some don't. I believe some only allow dual citizenship where both citizenships are of EU countries.

Normandy - under the rules as they stand, getting married won't make any difference as if you have had two or more years of cohabitation he would qualify as your 'partner' in the same way as if he was a spouse. However, as a back up plan, you may want to ensure that you are earning at least £18,600, and have been doing so for at least 6 months before you make an application for him to remain under domestic provisions.

I would really hope that provisions are made in the immigration rules to prevent families being split up even if they don't meet the current immigration rules, but this isn't reflective of the recent trend. There was a situation a few years ago where the rules relating to visas for doctors was suddenly changed, and some people who had pending applications were suddenly told they no longer qualified to remain. The courts upheld this, saying that the government is entitled to change immigration laws without notice. In this case I can quite well see them saying "You had two years notice to bring yourself under the domestic immigration rules, tough luck if you didn't do so".

So the six years altogether of work and studying, though split by time at sahm time, are not enough? By the time Brexit will happen it will be five years employment, so should that be enough or will it be too late by then?

Ok thanks Thistle. Yes i currently earn in excess of that and have been working in that job for over two years. It does mean that my plans to go part time or try a different career path might have to be re thought. DP is working too, so presumably that will help or does it just have to be me as his partner with the job? I'm hoping that they will have to introduce some kind of amnesty for people who arrived here in the 5 years prior to the referendum as they came here in good faith that they could, if they wanted to, make this their permanent home. Seems unfair otherwise.

Thanks Mistigri.

This feels like it is going to pull the rug out from under the feet of many people.

I have a colleague who's wife is in the same sort of position as the OP. They are a happily married couple. They have DCs born here. This change is creating instability in their personal lives. This is not an instability they looked for. They didnt change, The rules changed around them.

Totally agree Gnome. It's very unsettling. I'm renewing my Canadian permanent residence just in case as it was due to expire and I was going to let it lapse but definitely not now. I wrote to my MP about it and received a somewhat reassuring letter but obviously he can't give me any cast iron guarantees, neither can anyone, until we know what kind of deal we will strike with the EU. I have all my fingers crossed that it includes freedom of movement!!

I've been looking into citizenship / IDL / residence card and since we are still in the EU (for another 2years) I've been told (by a gov agency) I cannot apply for the residence card and IDL is the only option. Anyone else been told this?