Fruit pickers/Eastern Europeans/why?

[TheGoodEnoughWife]

Hi, put this here as was said in relation to the leave vote.

A fruit farmer said on the news last night that if he cannot have Eastern Europeans picking his apples then they would remain unpicked and go to waste.

Just wanted to ask why this would be?

Why aren't there people within the UK wiling to pick them? We have high unemployment so surely the potential for pickers are there?

I have considered it is because workers from outside the UK can be paid less but doesn't the farmer have to pay minimum wage? Or is there some way around that (by offering accommodation perhaps?) or maybe people within the UK don't want to pick the fruit and are holding out for a perceived 'better' job?

I know when I was little my mum would go, along with her friends of similar age/life stage, fruit picking for work but that doesn't happen now - why not?

Would be interested to hear other views on why this might be?

It's true that our enemployed don't wish to do the job or aren't as reliable.

We had a major construction project in my area. Labourers jobs were advertised well locally and very few people applied. The majority were Eastern European and travelled 40 miles each way to work and were punctual with a lower sick rate.

iPost

Because they don't pay them correctly I picked up a young couple from EE who were here fruit picking, they were hitch hiking to nearest city

They worked 6 days a week got fed and accommodation and were given £20 wages

I mean come on that's a joke , talk about slave labour.

The problem is that most of the unemployment in the UK is not where the fruit farms are located

This, exactly. I live in a berry picking area. We voted overwhelmingly remain. Immigration is a non issue in this area, we need young people to come in an work in our restaurants, pick our fruit and provide care for old people. We have a long and friendly relationship with Poland going back before the War. It is so sad that people that are prepared to work hard in low paid essential jobs have been demonised and made to be the problem.

The farmer I mention above employs these people all year round so it's not all seasonal work.

I don't think the polish people are demonised. It's just a shame people like my sons are told to sod off when all they want to do is work........they would work too. They are good lads.

I'm sure your kids are fine. But for the farmers it's a gamble.

I don't think it is a case of laying blame either. There are many reasons and quite an argument that Eastern Europeans are being exploited.

As with anything you can go down the line and find possible reasons - for example, farmers need to pay low wages, farmers are being squeezed to keep costs down, the buying public can't afford prices to rise because wages are too low. Government has subsidised wages enabling wages to be kept low?

(Equally the argument that all UK young people are lazy doesn't fit either).

In any case, we have had foreign workers fruit picking since before free movement. It has always been recognised as a special case and allowances made by immigration. The last time British fruit was picked solely by British workers was probably WW2.
Years ago women would fruit pick taking their children with them. The children would pick also. These days we do not find child labour acceptable and women would never be allowed to bring children with them! But we have to accept that a short-term job that can only be done by the young and childless will require an influx of young labour from somewhere - and are demographics are such that we probably don't have enough young British people available.

I could see my dd (16/17) working her summer next year picking fruit. In my (probably unrealistic!) ideal she would have a fab summer working hard but honest surrounded by other young adults

Wouldn't she rather do that somewhere else in Europe though? If she's still allowed to, that is.

MrsSchadenfreude, yes, I was about to mention that work permit scheme for Eastern Europeans before those countries joined the EU.

Local farmers were up in arms when it ended, worried how would they get a reliable enough workforce to get their crop in.

Which was interesting, because only a few years previously I'd been working on those farms and the people around me were all locals and maybe travellers, mostly women, some of whom had picked for years.

I suspect changes in the number of people able to just earn "pin money" in the area made a difference. Once the numbers drop below a certain level, farmers have to take measures to secure a workforce who will actually turn up each day.

And attracting a young or unattached workforce who want to travel and have accommodation provided is very, very normal in agriculture in many countries. Friends of mine have gone to the vendange in France, picked raspberries in Norway, etc.

Around here, a lot of the hiring-out for low-paid jobs has been passed on to agencies.

The workers start at minimum wage but the agency deducts various 'expenses' from them before they even start. They have to pay for a high-vis vest with the agency name on it. They also have to travel in one of the agency's minibuses to get to the job each day, and are charged a higher rate for that too. Then there are the various 'registration fees' that have to be paid.

It's win-win for the agencies. They get to exploit workers and make a nice little profit. Their business practices are rarely questioned because it's far easier to blame it all on "lazy Brits".

It's very different to how it was when my siblings used to do fruitpicking for extra pocket money during the holidays. And even then they could only do so because they didn't need to pay full rent or bills.

I'd be willing to pick fruit, but never seen a job for one advertised

East European workers are willing to undertake this back breaking work because the money earned would buy more when they went home to their own country than it would buy here.

Also we have had very low unemployment here so UK people can find other jobs. Many people on benefits have health issues which would make this work physically difficult, others have caring responsibilities which means they can't upsticks and move for a few months, others can't work because they have social and behavioural issues which means that if they turned up they would be inefficient and counterproductive.

Given the reduced opportunities from brexit we may find that more UK people will undertake this work in future or we may just import stuff from elsewhere (which will be very expensive)

Why aren't there people within the UK wiling to pick them? We have high unemployment so surely the potential for pickers are there?

We also have a highly attractive welfare state so why would someone want to do a very physical job for minimum wage over long hours when they can sit at home watching Jeremy Kyle and eating crisps?

I actually looked into this a few years ago, when my son was little and I was on income support. In my opinion you can't realistically come of benefits for this work. It isn't guaranteed so no way of knowing what your weekly money will be, unfeasible with bills to pay and a family to support. Would be good for students though

Indeed, Letme, you have to be in the right area.

And even then, you have to have transport - an obstacle which is easy to underestimate. Rural bus services have plummeted in my life time. Country roads are frequently unsafe to walk or cycle on (and I've been on a bus which has hit a cyclist, ironically outside the very farm gate where I later worked). Sometimes the farmer/agency provides a bus, but you still have to be in the right area for pickup.

Sometimes it's doable; sometimes it just isn't. It's frustrating all round.

I have looked for casual agricultural work in my area & can't find any advertised (we live in rural Norfolk). Make of that what you will.

Considering there are high travel costs to get to/from here from Eastern Europe, just coming up for 6-10 weeks seasonal work at barely/below minimum wage doesn't seem like an economic decision.

I remember the disdain on here for the dodgy tv programmes and news articles demonising and stereotyping people on benefits.

Why did this referendum through that out the window and make council estate dwelling benefits claimants fair game for mocking and looking down on?

We also have a highly attractive welfare state so why would someone want to do a very physical job for minimum wage over long hours when they can sit at home watching Jeremy Kyle and eating crisps?

Sorry above post was in relation to this.

Considering there are high travel costs to get to/from here from Eastern Europe

Yes, those 20 quid Ryanair flights from Ljubljana and Warsaw really break the bank, don't they?

No change, Peppatina.

There's always been a strand of benefit-bashing on MN. And a strand of people saying stop with the simplistic stereotyping.

As indeed evinced on this thread.

But many people on benefits do have a disability related element, or caring responsibilities. It would not be possible for them to carry out a hard physical job. Catering, fruit picking, care work all needs physical and mental robustness, which not everyone has. My teenagers have had many casual catering jobs, working alongside eastern europeans - it is work for the fit and young and where I live, there aren't enough of those without immigration.