How to Make Britain a better country

[ceridwyn]

OK people. Let's get past the shock and anguish, blame and panic about the EUref result before it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. A decision has been made that probably won't be implemented until 2019...Sterling is falling because the selfish b*** capitalists who thought they could make a quick buck backed the wrong result and are now shorting currency to create volatility in the market so that they can make money. Can we not just take a moment to say what we would like for Britain's future rather than being so negative. That way maybe we can all put our minds and our will behind it to make it happen. I want people who care about people would be running the country. I want Britain to be a country where people choose to educate themselves, look after their neighbours and wider community and a free to speak their mind as long as they are willing to listen to the other side of the debate without resorting to insults and incivility. What would you change to make a positive impact Locally and Nationally.

'And how do we start that then claig? How do we get change?'

We begin by voting out the useless ones and supporting the common sense ones. We petition for the chums in the media (particularly the BBC which is paid for by all of us and which pays its stars millions of our money) to give open access TV slots to committees of people and supporters of different parties where each party group gets a turn in grilling the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition monthly so that the people can see real questions being asked by real people instead of the usual concerns and pet projects of the chums.

We campaign for PR voting so that the chums have to reflect the will of the people so that revolutions like the one we have just witnessed where the people defied the entire Establishment because they ignored and refused to listen to the people no longer need to happen.

So who gets the ball rolling on this? It sounds positive but how?

'So who gets the ball rolling on this?'

Not sure. Probably the chums, so we might as well forget it and watch Eastenders instead.

For a brief moment there was hope

'For a brief moment there was hope'

Are you referring to the result of the EU Referendum?

Yes, hope springs eternal. There is a chum (most likely from Oxbridge) somewhere you will fix it one day.

No what you were saying about the changes in the system. I am hoping for more togetherness and hope rather than hatred and devisions. I just want to avoid the hatred and devisions

I don't really think there is hatred and division. This is usually whipped up by political opponents who opposed Brexit and pretended that it was all about "hate" when all people wanted was not to be run by unaccounatble and unelected officials in Brussels.

The only hate we have seen is all the protestors booing Boris and calling him a "scumbag" outside his home just because he supported Brexit.

You enact change by finding out how a system works (or in this case doesn't) find the actual person/people who administer it and ask for change explaining how and why your method is better. If (and sometimes when) this is ignored you lobby your MP, you set up petitions, you write to the media, you start a social campaign but please remember that insulting, criticising, blaming and being rude or dismissive helps nobody achieve anything. Constructive social networking can be the key to the Britain we and our children deserve.

Plebiscites = tyranny of the majority - they can be used to disguise oppressive policies as populism. Thats why, since WW2, there has been no provision in Germany for the holding of referendums at the federal level.

'Plebiscites = tyranny of the majority '

I think on the contrary, plebiscites are democracy

'Thats why, since WW2, there has been no provision in Germany for the holding of referendums at the federal level.'

I would say the real reason is because the technocratic, elite political class does not want the people spoiling their plans and getting in the way of the wishes of the lobbyists.

And yes claig you are right, we have no control over major media such as BBC and Major newspapers but with social networks, forums, blogs, twitter, fb, instagram, snapchat, vines, youtube you have unprecedented access to media to run a campaign. All day I've been reading about (from young people's perspective) that we've ruined their lives by voting out of Europe. I'm pretty sure that every parent that voted thought that they were doing their best for their children. The only way the political landscape will change is if EVERYBODY puts in their opinion, their ideas, their dreams and dares to try and enable change. Please do not give up.

ceridwyn, the problem is that twitter and socail media are dominated by the young and metropolitan elite who campaign on left wing causes and older pensioners etc are disenfranchised. You need everyone to have equal access and knowledge of technology. The metropolitan elite are chums and have access to the BBC, and they all know each other in their metropolitan circles, and they try to push their pet projects on the rest of the people without asking them.

We had the metropolitan elite trying to change our PMQs because the left wing ones thought it was too rough and tumble and they wanted more committee style conciliatory debate rather than our traditional adversarial system. But they didn't ask everyone.

I like referendums because then the elite can't ignore what all of the people really think outside the metropolitan circles that dominate our BBC and TV media.

OP, do you really think a spot of positive thinking "no negativity please" will make up for the thousands of European families who built their lives here, whose children may only speak English and who face loosing their employment, property and friends, schools to go back to a country where they are not at home any longer?

May I ask, did you vote Brexit? I bet you did.

I say fuck such hypocrisy. You want less hate, less division? We had that by being part of the EU. Which wasn't perfect but your beating the drums for the Great British Utopia is very distasteful.

Cherryguitar
Short answer; No.
I don't think that positive thinking and no negativity make up for that but I am desperately hoping that this isn't what the result of a non panicked orderly leave of EU will generate, otherwise half my extended family will be packed off back to Poland.

The problem is that if the more rational among us don't start to make a plan and the inflammatory migrant hating bigots do declare that they have an exit plan how is that going to help anyone.

Yes, I did vote Leave and no I'm not being a hypocrite. I am not racist, xenophobic and my leanings are for a better society through individual social responsibility. I firmly believe that decent people who come to Britain to work and play a part in society deserve to be here. That has been the way in Britain for the best part of a century and has been a large part of creating our diverse dynamic culture.

My reasoning for voting leave is based on economic theory. I realise that there is no getting away from capitalism, I'm not that naïve. I object to the way that big business dominates by utilising foreign subsidiaries to evade tax which should be payable here. I object to Banks which using EU regulations have purchased British building societies in order to manipulate their image as secure banks whilst evading UK FSA rules about ring fencing funds and avoided mergers and monopoly committee rulings. Both these aspects create industries considered "too big to fail" but in reality if you investigate their infrastructure and holdings, they should be technically bankrupt.
There is another correction coming (like 2008) and I don't believe that it is avoidable whether we are in the EU or not BUT if we are out we can make our own rules about financial accountability for these organisations and hopefully clean up the finance industry.

I hope that with the removal of the "red tape" many smaller businesses will find it easier to be competitive in Europe. Europe wants to trade with Britain so exit trade agreements may not have "preferential" terms but I suspect that they won't be evil.

In addition, if Britain negotiates further trade deals with Australia, NZ, Canada, America, China, Japan, India and so on it creates an opportunity for Britain to be a hub for world wide trade as it was once before in it's dim and distant past.

With regards all of the hateful arguments about immigration I despair. What mother wouldn't accept that people who are so desperate that they leave everything because they fear for their lives and their childrens' lives deserve the chance to live in peace. My mother and best friend both worked with young asylum seekers, one as a social worker the other TEFL. The stories they tell are heart breaking. I would like a sensible, caring and humane response to a migration policy and a sensible policy for visas for coming here to work.

I asked for "no negativity please" because I wanted positive suggestions. I'm sorry if that offends you but there was so much hate on other threads I was trying to avoid it ;-)

The "red tape" is what makes access to the markets possible, the red tape means the regulatory framework, so that services are provided & goods are manufactured according to the same standards. As Michael Dougan explained, tariffs are a doddle to deal with. But making sure your goods conform to the legal rules about what is allowed to be bought or sold, that takes years of negotiations. That "red tape" is what a trade deal actually is. Without following the red tape our companies generally won't be allowed access to their markets. They won't meet the safety standards required, for instance. But other companies in EU will meet the standards, that gives them a competitive advantage. Of course, our SMEs can continue to follow the standards, but have very reduced say in their evolution.

And keep in mind UK barely makes anything. We are a service economy. We make intellectual goods. There could be world-market manufacturing advantage by not following EU "red tape" is if we drive towards a lower wage/lower skill economy in manufacturing. Yup, we can be the miniature India/China. As for services, we sold half of our services to EU and flogged ourselves to other parts of the world as the leading services provider within EU. Now we will lose that agile niche. Pardon me if I'm dismayed at the insecurity coming.

So great that Britain can negotiate trade deals with all these other places ... woohoo. I can't wait for more cheap & dodgy goods to be sold widely on UK high street. So much better than the stuff produced for the EU market.

lljkk
"Without following the red tape our companies generally won't be allowed access to their markets. They won't meet the safety standards required, for instance. But other companies in EU will meet the standards, that gives them a competitive advantage"

British manufacturing and safety standards are actually higher than European ones. This is why the process needed for British Safety Kitemark and British Hallmarks is quite rigorous. I'm not talking about regulations full stop when I say red tape, I'm talking about the additional regulations pushed onto Britain which have negatively impacted our workforce and our ability to work effectively.

Take for example the Working Time Directive (circa 1998) which basically stated that employees should work for know longer than 40hrs per week on average. OK, great protection for employees in theory.

British contractual weeks at that point in time averaged a 37 hour working week. Anyone involved in a trade where longer hours were the norm (as I was at the time working as a pub manager for a large brewery averaging 70hrs per week) was asked by their employer to sign a document waiving their rights or find a new job.

I do not believe that this was the aim of the Directive sent down from Brussels but maybe because of translation issues the result was an extra layer of meaningless paperwork which may or may not be partly responsible for current zero hours contracts (no contracted hours, no application of WTD)

In addition, without interference from EU regulation Britain could lead the change in practice rather than being held to a lower standard and that is what I hope for.

It's also worth bearing in mind that whilst the referendum result was for leave it is not legally binding upon government. I truly believe that the referendum was a political masterstroke which has enabled us to learn what beliefs people are holding and why. The discussions occurring since the referendum are far more enlightening than the campaigns were and I hope that these discussions clear the air for Britain to move forward working with Europe.

www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/family/2016/06/martins-reaction-to-brexit This article is informative and has Martin Lewis making some very valid points. What is interesting and relevant to what I was trying to explain in my last post is Martins description of "Mortgage Prisoners"

Well do you have any ideas on how to keep NI and Scotland as part of the union then?

NI is a bit tricky, because of that half and half divide. If we want Britain to be a better country we need to urgently address NIs complaints and concerns, because things will not be better if we're all on the alert for bombs on the high street again, from Belfast to Manchester to London to Brighton.

But if Scotland want to leave, they should be allowed to vote on it, and to leave amicably and respectfully if they choose. It's a healthier option than glowering away at each other across the border!

Changes to make to help the UK:
-Now out the EU reopen UK fisheries, this will create thousands of jobs, tax income & boost coastal economies which badly need it

-Use the £10 billion we save in EU fees on things that can improve Britain e.g. remove VAT on fuel to relieve fuel poverty, invest in NHS, smalller class sizes etc

-Control immigration- we need to go back to pre 1997 level of around 30-50,000a year only for skilled immigrants. This will give Brits a better standard of living= better wages, more jobs, less housing pressure, better NHS

But it is partly EU regulations (or FSA interpretation of EU regulations) that have allowed the banks to behave in this manner. What I'd like to see is a return to building societies in this country rather than banks which take risks, package debt as assets, short markets and generally play with a system which needs stability which inevitably end badly. OK a return of 3,4,or 5% may not look great against an investment suggesting 6-10% return but lower growth is sustainable and compounded over a time period is far superior to boom and bust.