So, all the historians out there - are there any parallels with 1930's Germany?

[whataterriblefuss]

Have heard this bandied about, but not clear of the parallels. Anyone?

Agree that Russia biggest threat. Doesn't a weakening (and possible disintegration of EU) make that threat greater?

Main difference is that younger people voted to stay. It isn't just the UK having issues - a friend of mine in Germany says it is getting scary there - too much bad feeling because of massive immigration.

I don't know re. Russia. I find it hard to think of something they want that the European countries would be prepared to get involved in. I suspect we'd throw the 'stans under the bus tbh. Latvia etc, possibly but would need a popular mandate I'm not sure a British PM would get. I guess I don't really see the EU as a military block.

We take peace in Europe for granted.

I was caught up in a bombing by the IRA.
It caused me to do a lot of soul searching in my life to try to understand nationalism and why people turn to violence.
I took time to go to NI and try and make some sense of it all.
What I found shocked me and the amount NI is forgotten in decision making in our country never fails to appal me. It does not leave me.

I have also visited Bosnia and Serbia several times as a result.
I have found it both sobering and enlightening.
Seeing the EU flag there was something that very much changed my mind about the EU and whilst I don't believe that it ended the conflict I do think it has helped to contribute towards peace in the longer time. A peace that is still extremely fragile and I have no doubt is being tested by recent pressure from migrants. I had a moment of being proud that flag was somehow MY flag and it meant something. Something more than just a those interfering French and Germans.
I feel British, but also European.

If there was one reason I voted to Remain above all else its been for this.

Then there was the death of Jo Cox. Which left me reeling in so, so many ways. It reinforced the way I felt.

Now that feels shattered.
All of it. I can't put into words why in a way that does it justice.

Grief probably. Mixed with despair and fear.

I have watched this campaign unfolding with horror.

The things I found most disturbing were the dismissal of the experts in the fact of outright lies and the 'glittering generalities' of promise of patriotism and empowerment. And the pre-emptive use of Godwin.

Its just something you can't reason or argue with no matter how much you try. Now that has been awaken, how do you stop it?

I didn't feel able to say any of this last week. Especially in the face of accusations of Project Fear. That makes it all the more troubling to me.

Of course with the undertones of it all - some of it overt, some of it causal and careless more than anything, mixed with a real sense of threat at times and that poster.

I am scared. Very very scared.

Uk heading more towards 1930s spain i would think.

I don't take peace in Europe for granted which is why I voted out. The EU needs to reform, or be reformed, If this kick starts that process then good, otherwise it will all go to hell in a handcart. Those who live in the Berlaymont and Westminster bubbles aren't listening. It's all getting a tad 1789 for me, rather than 1930s Germany.

I don't think it will take much more to push Greece over the edge.

The incoherent rage of so many people, the dislike and suspicion of politicians and the move away from the centre towards far left and far right parties and ideologies is very reminiscent of Germany in the late 1920s.

How do we stop it? How do we make this go in a better direction?

I don't know how we stop it. Sorry, I've nothing useful to add, but I'm finding this thread highly instructive, if quite alarming.

So is it possible that the current trends of nationalism/patriotism will naturally segue into more militant division of nations/populations?

I think the thing to be wary of is racial tension tbh.
And more terrorism.

I don't think the immigration issue is going away, and I think it will continue to be stoked for political gain.

I think that any slurs on educational level and xenophobia should be avoided as much as possible as its feeding the feeling - I note today a certain defensiveness / victim mentality about it mixed with anger - even when people have not been saying that as much as you might expect or have been quite measured in the way they say it.

I think that the use of language and not getting draw into certain arguments is going to be very difficult, but is being exploited quite deliberately. Today, has been especially hard.

We need some sort of strong leadership and unity now. We are pretty headless with two parties effectively without a leader. Right now, Nicola Sturgeon is forging her own agenda, Cameron is a lame duck, Osbourne is AWOL and his days are numbered, Corbyn is toast, NI look about to start bickering again, crap knows what's going on with Wales and we have Boris and Farage to all intents and purposes leading us all.

Looking through Labour ranks though, I'm struggling to see where good opposition is going to come from.

We need to study GCSE History to understand this? Lol.

Osbourne is AWOL and his days are numbered

Yes, where the FUCK is Osborne?