Apparently you can take your own pen to vote

[claig]

Saw an article on the web advising to take your own pen to vote rather than using the pencil.

Checked if that was OK and it seems it is

"Do I have to mark my cross with a pencil on a string?

No, if you prefer you can use a pen, even if it's your own. While a cross is usually called for, you could theoretically mark the box with a tick instead. The important thing is that your voting intention is clear."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-32451429

Sorry, x-posted with Limer. It's generally thought that when people turn up at a polling station and their name has already been marked on the register, it's down to clerical error rather than attempted fraud (the print is quite small and polling staff are working a 16 hour day...). In the ward where I work, a lot of families have a tradition of naming their sons very similar names to their fathers so it would be quite easy to mark the wrong name or someone grabs another family member's polling card from the pile and tells a little bit of a porky when they are asked to confirm their name and address (pointless really as you don't need your polling card to vote). Yet again there is a (bureaucratic) process for dealing with this so the person who arrives late and finds himself already marked off still gets to vote.

But when could these marks be rubbed out and changed unexpsoc? I was at a count a few days ago (just a little local by-election) and even though it was of little real importance, there were literally tens of party activists scruitinising our every move? I honestly can't think how I could have slipped some ballots away, left the room and then changed the votes and returned them or how any of the activists could have .

But, yes, if you feel happier, then please bring a pen to use. No one will stop you.

I've just checked my postal vote (it will be taken by someone else to the polling station on the day, which is one of the allowed ways).

It says very clearly "use a black pen".

So it would be pretty hard to amend a postal vote without it being obvious.

This is fascinating stuff.

Never really thought about it before, but if I wanted to commit electoral fraud, I'd fill in the yearly form from the council with a load of fictitious names and request postal votes for them all. Then fill in all those postal votes every time an election came around. Come to think of it, I think that's the fraud that was discovered in Birmingham.

I'm pretty sure that's what happened with the postal votes in Tower Hamlets too.

But ultimately, just because votes can be rigged, it doesn't mean they are being rigged and certainly not in as primitive a way as rubbing out the cross and remarking it .

lala - that was rather the point I was making.

Sorry - overlooked the face.

lala - no worries. My posts are so normally dripping with smug sneariness that it is more obvious than that.

Going from the US example, the problem with asking to see ID is that it's usually the poorest/most disadvantaged voters who don't have IDs, and who get disenfranchised. Introducing ID requirements is a well-known tactic by the Republicans to stop black people from voting (since they're usually poorer and usually vote Democratic)

That's only thing bugs me about postal note there's no system to scan and text or email you to say it's been received. Think I try get someone to drop into polling station at least it's 100% to count

I once went into "accesable" voting booth so proudly by officer except the pencil was miles away and in my chair I coulnt get close enough. Had to write on my lap with a pen

In elections that ARE proven to have been rigged, on the whole what happens is that ballot papers are added (or sometimes 'lost'). I've never heard of any large-scale changing of votes - far too difficult, and far too traceable...

I will be at the Count in my local authority area tomorrow.

Can I take my tinfoil hat to stop the Bilderberg group sending me messages via chemtrails or something when I'm in the polling booth.

Anyone thinking votes can be erased has clearly never been to a count. Assuming it's the same as a general election:

The votes get tipped out from a sealed ballot box and shared between several counters, who at this stage simply count the number of votes in the ballot box and make sure it adds up to the same as the paperwork with the box says it does. If it doesn't, they have to do it again. This stage can take a while.

Then they sort them into the voting options - this will be quite simple this time round, it'll just be Leave/Remain/Spoiled I guess. Then they all have to be added up and the total checked again to be the same as they started with.

All this is carried out under the watchful eye of the campaign teams - there will be people from the Leave campaign in each area watching the ballots being counted, literally standing a foot away from them but not allowed to touch obviously.

Does that make you feel any less paranoid, claig ? In fact, if you are in contact with your local Out campaign, you could probably get to go to the count yourself.

'Can I take my tinfoil hat to stop the Bilderberg group sending me messages via chemtrails or something when I'm in the polling booth.'

As far as I know, you certainly can do. However, you can take a pen as well to mark your Out vote to be double sure.

Bloody Hell, there are unlimited fines to face if we violate confidentiality or tamper with individual ballots.

I haven't done the process yet, but it's very public, with lots of onlookers. You'd have to move faster than Muhammed Ali to alter anything without being spotted by the gallery of onlookers.

Bribing folk to vote a certain way is probably a more reliable strategy, if someone wanted to corrupt the ballot.

Do all you conspiracy theorist know the type of people who work in polling stations and counts?

Ordinary people that's who. Quite often retired or current local government officers, other retirees, students. Unemployed. Ordinary people. All just doing it for a bit of extra money and to support the democratic process. All working an incredibly long day for very little thanks. Have any of you tinfoil hatters ever done it or do you just sit there and fucking moan about it behind your fucking keyboard while accusing all these 1000s of ordinary people of helping to rig elections by rubbing out your grrubby little vote after you've put it in a locked and sealed box.

Jeez.

To be fair, it is kind of the nature of conspiracy theories that they gloss over what is actually possible, or what there would be a point to doing, in favour of wild hypotheticals.

Fucking hell, the Leave campaign have come up with some desperate conspiracy theories. Do you really think that, if the government wanted to swing the vote they would employ lots of highly corrupt minions to rub out crosses and scribble in the 'remain' box?

Still if you actually DO believe this, I urgently encourage you to not only put a cross in the box with your Mont Blanc but also to sign and date it too.

There are actually deep psychological reasons behind this; conspiracy theories tend to be believed in by those who feel they have little control over their lives, so it's not surprising there is a conspiracy theory/Leave crossover.

David Aaronovitch's book, Voodoo Histories, is a good read if the subject interests you. I found it fascinating.

I also find the psychology of conspiracy theories really interesting. We're not nearly as rational as we think we are. As a species, I mean.

Fucking hell, the Leave campaign have come up with some desperate conspiracy theories.

We don't need conspiracies theories, we had

1. Juncker today saying - No more reform. So Corbyn and Cameron are going to be very disappointed. Just more of the same EU - forever

2. German business head of German BDI said there would be no curbs on trade between UK and Germany - blowing apart Project Fear's ridiculous claims that Germany would not trade with us

3. New talks on Turkey joining the EU start on 30 June.

Links available if you google

Can I just remind anyone taking their own pen tomorrow, make sure it has adequate ink left. Good luck tomorrow.