Non ethical living

[kerala]

Yesterday I met up with an old friend. Although a lovely person she is blissfully unaware (or just doesnt care) about green issues. She flies long haul every other month or so, every member of the family have a gas guzzling sports car (they are a very rich international family). She saw me changing my reuseable and thought I was crazy. She was convinced that it wasnt worth it and anyway you have to use tumble driers to dry the nappies - she had never come across the concept of a washing line.

I just despair sometimes. I scurry around with my composting, reuseables, mooncup, using public transport all the time, holidays in France rather than Mauritius, giving talks at the hospital about reusables. Yet a sizeable number of people do absolutely nothing. Why do I bother?!

In a way I am abit jealous. I sometimes wish I could be like that but I seem to be burdened by an overactive conscience. Does anyone else feel like this?

Agree with everything there Highlander.
Manufacturers need to lead the way.

And some things are SO simple - 50p per supermarket carrier bag and everyone would soon catch on! (Although I do use mine for a multitude of things)

I think it is very very admirable that people like you, kerala, make the effort in an environment where it would be so easy not to do so. I used to do my 'little bits' here and there when I lived in the Uk (reusables, recycling, cycling when poss). I've since moved somewhere where there are no recycling facilities and yet no-one would ever consider throwing away anything which can be reused in some form in the future; where you are privileged to own a tumble drier so you learn to love a nice windy day for drying; where if things break you try and fix them instead of replacing; where it is the norm to grow your own food and so you logically make your own compost; where in many parts there is no rubbish collection so you don't buy things that create extra rubbish to be transported at your own cost; etc etc etc.

I have changed a lot since leaving the UK and I think it is in a positive way. By trying to become self sufficient I've accidentally become very 'green'. But this hasn't been a big effort for me because of the way of life here. Change and adapt. In the Uk I would probably be much lazier - simply because it is very easy to be like that. Well done kerala.

I agree with Highlander, but wish to add a few things.....
So many products are now "disposable". We just bought our house phones a few years ago, and already they are on their last legs. I don't think its even possible to get them fixed. Our washer and dryer have been fixed numerous times, which is better than replacing them, but why can't they be built a bit better? One repairman told me that one part in the dryer (which i use mainly in the winter) was only built to last a few months!
On another note, and I will probably be slaughtered for this, but if we are in the woods and the dogs poo off the path, I leave it. Its a natural product, it breaks down quickly, and surely its better for the environment then packing it up in a plastic bag?? I do pick up every other time though.

funny, puprpleduck - DH and I were saying exactly the same thing about phones

It makes me really angry that the G7 governments are happy for us to worry/fight/argue about the best ways to respect the environment, yet they do nothing to lead the way. No doubt worrying about the busisnesses they would offend.......

you can be green as you like but unless market leaders make a real switch in favour of going green it doesnt add up to a hill of beans.

The obstacle in the way of driving greener living forward is the same thing that obstructs lots of potentially life-saving ideas - greed.

I recycle, drive a hybrid, compost etc - I wish my actions would be sufficient to ensure the wellbeing of child/grandchildren - but unfortunately that isnt how its going to play out is it?

The lack of governement drive makes me completely rage. I don't think I've ever felt so strongly about anything in my life

is having clean and ironed pajamas unethical then claricebeansmum?

Purpleduck - It makes me so ANGRY when I see plastic bags of poop in the bushes! Agree with you that it is better than to leave than to leave it in a bag. HOWEVER not great for the next folk that come along. Had to BIN a pair of sandals the other day as impossible to get it all off. I guess biodegrable bags are the answer but then if people chuck those in the bushes won't it just be a pile of poo again before too long I tend to get the stuff around our house on a shovel and shove it in the undergrowth out of the way. Can't bear to bag it - seems wrong. Obviously not a solution out in the wilds though.

I too sometimes have those hopeless moments. I'm an ardent greenie and if I discover something I'm doing wrong then I feel really bad. Guilt Guilt Guilt thats me.

Behind Highlander all the way. I guess it depends on why you do these things. If we do it to try to save the planet then thats a bit of a tall order and its easy to get disheartened. If we do it because it makes us feel good, eases our own guilt and makes sense to us then its easier to keep going. Doesn't make me feel any better about the world we are creating for our kids though

My view is that you can't be responsible for (and shouldn't feel bad about) other people but just for your own actions and attitudes.

To make a difference green products and services have to be mainstream. It frustrates me to death that if you want to make environmentally positive purchase decisions they're usually accompanied by compromises either the products not as good or some faceless business is exploiting their green technology by charging a premium for it.
If these businesses really had the environment's interests at heart they wouldn't rip us off and supply products that don't work well.
Many confuse "natural" with "green" I think the answers will come from new technology that everyone can embrace not niche products that a few of us buy into because we care.

Ooops I'm ranting again but this does tick me off.

Only my views and I don't judge others

Moll

Just have to try your best. We don't own a car, never fly, have an allotment and compost and recycle everything. Its less convenient and requires more thought. A organic veggie box is cheaper than the supermarket stuff much to my suprise (and saves bus fare/petrol) and we're vegan. Meat has a huge environmental impact.
Yet MIL visits, sees our Bio-D and Ecover stuff, fairtrade tea-bags and what have you but never changes her shopping habits. Still buys washing powders tested on animals and never buys organic (despite being rich). I find it perplexing how you can be aware these things exist but still reach over the fairtrade to the other brand.
Sometimes I wish I could be ignorant too. Life would be so much easier! I read 'Shopped' as well and can't bear to look at supermarket bread!
dd is in washable nappies at 3 and a half and I dread having to switch to disposables one day (she'll never be potty trained as she is severely disabled)
One thing we find easier is not buying anything. DH had to give up work to care for dd so even if we wwere ignorant we couldn't afford the plasma screen TV (still shows 200 channels of crap like the portable does) or change carpets etc every 5 minutes. Freecycle is pretty handy too.
Once you get a crack in your awareness its like a floodgate which can be a pain in the butt sometimes.

"holidays in France rather than Mauritius,"

erm.... what's wrong with the UK???

(beanaz - you do know you're resurrecting some very old threads, don't you? Mind you, the issues are still relevant. But I keep getting a sense of deja vu).

apologies JackieNo, I'm new to the site, and if something bugs me I have to say something, no matter how old the thread is!!

It's fine, beanaz - and as I said, the issues are still relevant. Welcome to MN, by the way.

Thank you

Wasn't arguing by the way lol.

Beanaz I think the suggestion to holiday in France was in response to a comment about missing out on other cultures etc...

highlander's list good but the trouble is that would only make a teeny dent

I don't think ANYONE needs a new car every 5 years either . Or at all, really...

I am making changes, but slowly. It's hard to become a Green Goddess overnight, and it's been easier to ensure that one green habit becomes ingrained before tackling the next.

we've given up the car, and don't fly (thesee were easy!). Recycling was harder for me - we have no doorstep collection as we live in flats, and no car. This means that we have to take stuff to the recycling site a 15min walk away every other day (and we both work). But I have finally got this habit properly ingrained, and am now working on reducing my waste generally, such as by using tupperware/tins rather than clingfilming stuff.

we are working on it too:

recycle everything possible (and our council collection is pretty good)

compost everything possible (we have 2 bins - you can get them cheaply from some councils)

try to buy stuff that uses less packaging/leads to less rubbish

have used washable nappies with ds1 and just started again with ds2, but not full-time, but enough to ease my conscience i feel

tend not to fly - but that's not an ethical choice just don't enjoy travelling with LOs

we have 2 cars - but made ethical choices when buying them, well one at least (a toyota yaris, v good fuel consumption and a diesel, meant to be better right?)

i know i have altered some friends lifestyles by my behaviour, particularly recycling, but on the other hand i hat it when more-ethical people than me make me feel guilty, eg not getting round to washables until 3 months old.

we all have to try to do our bit surely, and campaign for businesses to do theirs...

and while worthy individuals are clapping themselves/each other on the back for all the efforts and sacrifices they make, nobodys paying any mind to the real issues as outlined by highlander ( i think) .
well done for having your energies safely and conveniently directed at the small picture - oh and each other (isnt this whole thread about what shits all the other people are for not trying as hard as you?) rather than at big business and govt.
if you really care, do some research and campaigning, not digging at the people round you.

Excellent points from Highlander.

Something to keep in mind, too, is that a LARGE number of people - an increasing number - live in rented accommodation or flats and are restricted in how they source energy, composting, recycling.

i had to fight my council for a larger recycling bin

eventually after a formal complaint and threats of seeing my councillor (just before the local election) i got one.

let me add that it was only by complaining in the first place that the bins were emptied weekly yet recycling fortnighty ( my argument to reverse this if we were truly supporting recycling and encouraging others to do so) that i was told i was entitled to a larger bin. everyone with bigger families or teens/adults was entitled to this

that was a well kept secret.

my point is why do they make it so fucking hard.

i won btw i have lovely new shiny bin. but i had to fight for it

and i have to say that our council is the dogs bollocks actually as we dont have to seperate recycling and they collect tetra and glass.

I think what Highlander has said about governments needing to take the lead is really valid.
It really pees me off that our government does so little to actually force / encourage or whatever people and businesses to be green. Gordon Brown seems to think that all he needs to do to tackle climate change is to set larger and larger (and more unrealistic) targets for falls in emissions ...and meanwhile emissions and CO2 keeps on going up and up
On expats poing about people in rented accomodation / flats having difficulties recycling etc, where I live the council has organised recycling collection for people who live in multi-storey flats. Instead of having a recycling bin, they have a recycling box which they put outside their door and which is collected by the council.
Don't know how well it works in practice but seems a good idea.