Why is being vegan eco friendly?

[Pitapotamus]

Something I’m struggling to understand despite my google research is the fact that apparently eating meat is considered bad for the environment and being vegan is much better.

As I look out of my window I see nothing but countryside, farmed countryside, mainly sheep and dairy and cows. If that countryside wasn’t farmed because everyone was vegan what would it be?

Also, how is eating lamb and drinking milk (all of which were produced on your doorstep more or less) worse than drinking soya milk which is imported from abroad?

Many of our neighbours have boxes of eggs at the end of their driveways with an honesty box. Seems pretty eco friendly but it’s not vegan. We even have a local dairy farm with a fridge and an honesty box for milk.

I read a study on bbc news produced by one of the universities that said that the carbon footprint from meat and dairy etc is loads worse than the carbon footprint from a plant based diet. Surely the plants have to be harvested using diesel powered machinery and then transported etc. I just don’t really “get it” and I would be grateful to anyone who could give a simple explanation!

Being vegan is not without impact but eating one less steak equals showering for a month in terms of water consumption. Just because one option has an environmental impact does not mean it should be disregarded in favour of a less favourable option.

Cowspiracy is a really good watch on netflix and explains this issue.

I get that not everyone wants to be vegan but just saying, no, it's not right without doing any research is mad. (Not you OP but previous PP).

It takes over 60 gallons of water and huge amounts of food and grassland to provide enough meat to create one single beef burger. Of course in reality that significantly more because you don't raise a beef burger you raise a cow but that's the visualisation, that to eat one beef burger you have to use 60 gallons of water plus tonnes of feed and land.

Is that statistic based on the British grazing system or the American feedlot system? Because there's a huge difference.

I always feel a bit embarrassed for people who wheel out Cowspiracy and base their arguments on it.

It's been widely criticised for being completely inaccurate. Even the producers have been forced to retract many of the claims in it.

ethicalomnivore.org/cowspiracy-debunked/

www.quora.com/How-accurate-is-the-movie-Cowspiracy/answer/Karin-Lindquist

www.cowspiracy.com/blog/2015/11/23/response-to-criticism-of-cowspiracy-facts

farmingtruth.weebly.com/a-complete-debunk-of-every-cowspiracy-statistic.html

@SimonJT I agree about that being the scariest thing. In our current hierarchy of priorities it's more important to throw vast quantities of edible grain to the livestock industry to yield steaks and chicken and sausages etc instead of feeding the millions of malnourished people in third world countries.

It just goes to show that the needs of the few are put above the needs of the many in pretty much every case. We like to think of ourselves as exempt from that if we aren't in the top 1% but actually the majority of households in the developed world eat meat every single day and we are a part of that.

If every household went from including meat in meals every day to only eating meat two days in 7 then the environmental benefit would be enormous but beyond that, crops grown for feeding livestock could be diverted to feeding humans in desperate need.

I’m not vegan, I’m not bothered what anyone else wants to eat or not eat but I do think circumstances are important to consider.

So let’s say being vegan is more eco friendly overall. Ok. But you go to a gathering, there is a big chicken casserole that 9/10 people are going to eat. The 10th person (vegan/veggie), their most eco friendly option is to eat the chicken casserole (assuming their reasons for being veggie/vegan are only eco, not any other reason). It’s less eco friendly for another dish to be produced for one person. So if you were purely concerned with the environment you wouldn’t make something else. You’d only have something else if you were vegan for health/lifestyle/personal choice issues. Not eco.

Beef may not be especially eco friendly ( although it is more so in the UK than the USA where a lot of the stats are based)

But I know raising lamb is the only possible use of land in large parts of Wales. You can't grow crops there and the sheep are efficient grazers of the land. They don't require huge amounts of supplementary feeding in summer, which is when the lambs are raised.

The alternative would be to have nothing edible from the land.

Being very cynical here, do we really believe that if animal-based farming stopped, land would be left aside for wild nature? Hedges kept if no longer needed to keep animals in?
Human behaviour suggests otherwise to me.

The least environmentally friendly aspect of veganism for me is the amount of things that are made from plastic. If I wanted clothes or shoes that were vegan obviously they’d be made from man made materials (and they look bloody awful 🤢) Not rocket science is it. It’s fine preaching plant based etc, and I’m by no means a preacher, DH is a carnivore and I cook for him, but there really should be better options for clothes etc. Not everybody wants to look like a tree hugger, even if they are one. Stella McCartney does some nice bags, but goddamnit I want a pair of environmentally friendly Louboutins!!!!!!

It takes over 60 gallons of water and huge amounts of food and grassland to provide enough meat to create one single beef burger

That one is based on the American intensive system. (Cows kept indoors all their lives and fed grain)

That same cow stood on a wet welsh hillside? Not quite so much water.

If every household went from including meat in meals every day to only eating meat two days in 7 then the environmental benefit would be enormous but beyond that, crops grown for feeding livestock could be diverted to feeding humans in desperate need

If only this were true, sadly I don't believe the developing world would eat better on the back of this. It's not lack of food that's keeping children hungry (here and overseas) it's lack of money. As an aside, I think obesity is a growing problem even in the developing world now.

@NCbilliontimes

Why wouldn’t a vegan wear clothes made of cotton, silk, linen, bamboo or hemp? I’m wearing jeans and a cotton shirt, doesn’t make me look line a tree hugger.

Obviously as soon as I click post I realised silk should be removed.

It’s more shoes bags, maybe leather jackets etc. It’s if I want the high end designer stuff, like I said, a pair of Louboutins, it’s impossible. Or a pair of Vivienne Westwood Pirate Boots 😍 Vegan shoes are awful looking and again, made of plastic

Think what I’m getting at is more high end designers need to think about how their stuff is made. I’ll happily buy hemp, organic cotton etc, but someone needs to make something with a decent cut and finish. Not sure how you’d get around the shoe issue, but surely someone could come up with something beautiful that is ethically sourced.

I'm not bothered about what people eat, but I do find the arguments interesting. Actually what I find really fascinating is that it's impossible to be completely vegan because soil is made up of decaying plant and animal matter. Furthermore, farmers and commercial growers use fish, blood and bone as an essential fertiliser. Even organic growers do, as they understand the composition of soil. You can't ever completely remove animals from the equation. Decaying animal matter supports life.

Discussing what would happen to pasture land in a vegan world is v interesting. If its all to become crops then where will the fertiliser for all that come from?

@KennDodd tell that to children who are malnourished or parents who skip meals to feed their children.

And @RevealTheLegend just because the ideal of a cow sitting on a Welsh landscape appeals to our British values and seems super green and lovely it doesn't mean it's not a drastic waste of resources to spend time, food and water fattening up an animal that will give a fraction of the sustainable that the food and water would have given. And just because the major industrial farming happens in America (British farming is very quickly following suit due to cost pressures) it doesn't mean it's not part of the whole worlds problem. What is happening there and here is directly affecting every single person on the planet through the enormous damage climate change is doing.

You can't actually shy away from the facts that if we drastically reduced livestock farming and meat consumption it would have a bigger positive effect on the planet than taking all of America's cars off the road.

It's not the only solution we need but it's a huge part of the puzzle.

You can't actually shy away from the facts that if we drastically reduced livestock farming and meat consumption it would have a bigger positive effect on the planet than taking all of America's cars off the road

Except that's not really true.

I think this article below is a good summary of why it's not that simple.

sustainablefoodtrust.org/articles/claims-against-meat-fail-to-see-bigger-picture/

@itseasybeingcheesy

Tell them what? That it's not lack of food keeping them hungry but lack of money? Do you disagree with that and think it's a shortage of food? I don't agree. I think we can produce more than enough food in the world but poor people (wherever they live) don't have the money to buy it.

For me, plant based foods are just as bad as meat. Think about it: monoculture, soil errosion and food miles.
Veganisem is not the answer ... I think buying local produced food is so much better. As is avoiding highly processed food.

cheesy no, im under no romantic illusions about picturesque cows. I’ve worked in livestock production. It ain’t pretty. It’s one of the reasons that, though I’m not veggie, I only eat meat once a week or so and aim forthright welfare stuff when I do. We don’t need it in our diets.

I was just making th point that we do have to be sure we are making valid comparisons. US style factory farming isn’t always directly comparable with a smallholding in the UK.

cheesy there's also the little issue that a wet Welsh hillside will not necessarily produce much in the way of grain and veg. A lot of land used for livestock in the UK is just not great for arable agriculture: too steep, too rocky, too rainy, too cold, too badly drained. We have marshland near us that is grazed by cattle, and is fantastic for birdlife.

It's not simple.

An eco system is fragile and needs to be kept in balance and that means it also needs carnivores and omnivores.

Have a look at this video. It's called: How Wolves Change Rivers