What's the environmental impact of bottlefeeding?

[psweudonym]

Not just formula, I know about ebm, but obviously the majority of milk fed to babies from bottles is formula.

How many cows, how much grazing land, how much energy for bottle and teat production, the transport of formula, the packaging of formula, landfill issues, etc.

Is it a way the Government might be persuaded to put more into bf support, do you think, given that "green" is a huge issue atm?

Or would they commission a study and discover that women who bfeed wash their nipples at 90 degrees and iron their breasts?!

BAF, please go and start a thread saying that bf support is there if you ask for it.

Go on.

Hmm, when you factor in the lotions and potions, breastpads, bottles & teats for ebm, breastpumps, nursing bras, breast shells etc etc etc etc that I went through in the first few months I don't think that my breastfeeding experience could be considered any more environmentally friendly that bottle feeding.

In an ideal world I suppose it it slightly better but a struggling woman won't thank you for telling her to consider the environment I can tell you that for a fact.

I think FD sums it up in her last paragraph

"I was too shy to ask" - and unless you've clearly been TOLD about the helplines (don't forget that not everyone has the time/skills required to read the information you're given with all the other paper when your DC is born), have a dr or hv/mw who knows properly about breastfeeding and how to solve problems (rather than "oh just top up with ff"..., and can easily get to your baby clinic there's not much support at all!

My 2 "local" baby clinics are on the edges of town in opposite directions, I don't drive and it would take ma a good 1/2hr to walk there (and 1/2hr back) with DS2 in tow and the times they are at just don't make it practical (with DS1 needing picking up from school) to get there often (if at all!). They closed the one in the town centre as "not enough people used it"

If bfeeding has emotional implications which it surely does then get support.

Truthfully, the best support probably does come from friends etc because they are emotionally invested in you, as a person.
Probably the medical professionals can only advise on the technicalities as with anything.

binkleandflip, when dd1 waqs born i didnt have mumsnet ,. ididnt know there were numbers to call fopr help. i wanted to breastfeed, a lot. but was one of thoser that 'failed' in her red book at 2 weeks old its says 'advised to top up with formula' no midwife, HV etc offered any help with latching on or suggestions. just gave that line 'oh you cant be producing much, you must top up'. by 6 weeks dd1 was on formula.

in contrast, dd3, born at a v v v stressful time, loads of online support via mumsnet, i breasfed her till over 2years old. i faced opposition by health professionals at every stage. from a day after she was born, till well over a year old when i stopped going to see the HV. it was a combination of v determined mum, pure laziness regarding making bottles, and a baby who loved to feed.

There you go, BAF - might get some answers on there

I'm not talking about telling struggling women they should consider the environment, I am talking about asking the Government to put more money into bf support.

BAF, many, many women don't know anybody who bfed, so can't get support from them.

Sorry, reread the original post and realised this was about government pressure, not pressure on individual women so fair enough.

Still not sure it's an especially persuasive argument since the health one is very persuasive - and one pushed hard by the government itself - but that doesn't seem to make them put their money where their mouth is.

I suppose though, if you were putting together a report on the total savings gained by increased bf rates then it would be important to include it.

BT, have you read the article linked to by Fannyannie?

Fascinating - environmental impact bigger than some breastpads and some Lansinoh, definitely.

For instance: It would take 135 million lactating cows to replace the milk of the women of India alone.

So they have provided information of helplines.

There are clinics

You do have a responsibility to access all the assistance on offer before stating it's insufficient. They cannot personally come to every home and help you breastfeed everytime you do it. Because you cant drive so the clinic isnt near enough to you, that is not their issue.

I was lucky, I had a pro b/feeding friend. Another friend I have only had her very anti-b/feeding family - the only way she felt strong enough to b/f her last child was because she was living in another country to her family!! Not everyone has supportive friends.

BAF, you're taking a very simplistic view of something very complex. There's a lot to unpick from your sweeping statements, but suffice to say, accessing decent information and support is a huge issue for many, many women.

Health professionals usually don't have much in the way of knowledge about bfeeding.

There is information on breastfeeding in every doctors surgery and clinic. There is signposting for breastfeeding advice and support in every doctors surgery and clinic. They are obliged to display this information.

Unless you never attended at the doctors whilst pregnant, you cant have missed this.

I'm not starting another thread so we can all have a row about it. What I have stated above is fact. The information is there if you want to access it. The support is there if you want it. What they provide as support may not be what you feel is appropriate so you have find it here, on MN. So you are capable of seeking out that which you require without being spoon-fed it.

It's good that you've found this support. Perhaps the government should signpost mothers to MN for the support. It's not a bad idea.

See Tiktok here talking about why helplines aren't the whole answer for bf support

Oooooh BAF talk about a can of worms!

Honestly, bf support? Of decent quality? That's reliable, informed, evidence-based, convenient? It's like hens teeth in my experience.

I got gold-standard support practically on my doorstep. I'm still bf at nearly 8 months despite the first 4 months being one long struggle. Bar two people who had no problems at all, everyone else I know in rl with a baby under 2 was bottle feeding by six weeks and none of these people stopped bf through choice. Most of them don't blame the lack of support they had because they don't realise the support was poor but the nonsense they were fed beggars belief it really does.

HV, GPs, midwives often know bugger all about breastfeeding. Mothers, MILs, friends often know less, and that's before you factor in the well-meaning misinformation, or conscious/sub-conscious anti-bf feelings from friends and relatives.

[and breathe...]

Oh, and most people in rl don't know about the helplines. And if you tell them, they mostly don't phone ime because they believe their mw when she says their baby is too big to feed exclusively on bm and they must top up, or their mother when she tells them that their milk isn't good enough as her own wasn't. etc etc etc

oh yes the information is 'accessable' if you can get yourself there to access it.

but there are so many many reasons why it isnt to so mant many people. i have recently discovered there is a breastfeeding clinic in this town. there wasnt one when dd1 was little. it was in the next town. i didnt drive. it wasnt walkable. i only discovered this new clinic exsists because its where dd2 has SALT during the holidays and her appointment time was at the same time as the clinic. it isnt advertised at our local surgery (i have looked, i spend a lot of time there each week). it isnt in my red book as a clinic time.

Excellent article, fannyannie..

Pretty comprhensive, too, as it includes the cost to the health services of the world who have to deal with the health effects of formula feeding.

More difficult to quantify in money terms would be the social impact of health inequalities, which are intensified and extended by formula feeding. Breastfeeding actually closes the gap very efficiently, even in developed countries.

It's why infant feeding is a public health issue, as well as an individual one.

I hope binkle will come to the other thread where we are discussing the availability of bf support.

binkleandflip, information is not the same as support. I am currently bf my 5th child. I've done it before- 4 times for 15 months each. BUT it was still hard. I know how to do it- I've done it before. But getting started was really really difficult.

I've had problems with the latch, sore nipples, cracked nipples and mastitis. I got some help in hospital but wasn't there long enough really. The MW gave me some leaflets with phone numbers on but being "out of the loop" with baby stuff after 15 years I didn't know which one to try. What is Breast Mates for example? (actually a peer-led support group- not what I needed at all).

I knew I could do it so struggled through. Had this been my first, who knows?

psweudonym, I would take issue with your comment "But almost every baby is ffed to some extent -". None of my 5 has ever had formula and I can't be that unusual.

Evenhope, see here

Specifically, "Three-quarters of all mothers had given their baby milk other than breast milk by the age of six weeks, this proportion rising to 92 per cent by six months."

Mine haven't had formula either. We're in a tiny minority.

Speaking as an exclusive breastfeeder (DS1) a "failed" (though I don't really call it that) breastfeeder (after just 5 days) with DS2, and a (currently) mix-feeder (DS3 now 6 weeks old) I can say quite catergorically that the full support isn't there. A few weeks ago I had issues with DS3 latching on (or rather not latching on and screaming hystercially). After a lot of research, online (which many mothers don't have access to/know how to use) and on the phone I discovered that the closest breastfeeding counsellor to me is in another town - the ONLY NCT Breastfeeding Counsellor who is "local" to me (in a different town) isn't currently licensed to do it and unless I could get to this other town there was no way I could get PROPER support when I really could have used it.

I called one of the helplines - but they couldn't tell me more than I'd found out on here/worked out for myself and I really could have done with SEENING someone to advise on latch/positions etc rather than just talking over the phone.

As it is we managed to get it sorted on our own - but that was through sheer determination on my behalf not through any "support" I could have got.

And as for information on display in Dr.s surgeries - it's on thing "numbers" being on display - it's another thing calling them.

I knew about the numbers - but have a (quite odd ) phobia about making calls to anyone but close friends/family and it took a LOT of courage to call the one I did.

I have no friends with babies the same age who can support me with my breastfeeding, my closest friends last breastfed approx 12yrs ago!

We do have a breastfeeding support group in our town......but it's on the edge of town where most people can't get to it (unless they happen to drive) and many don't know about.

I also feel I should add (after being thanked for the article I found via Google) that I'm an unashamed mix-feeder, who, now she's getting a good stock pile of ebm in the freezer is veering more towards the unecological bottle feeding

Binkle - I had a GP ask me why I was "still b/feeding" at one year when I went for something else that required drugs.

I heard a MW say to a 16 yr old girl desperately trying to b/feed her newborn "I dont know why you are making so much effort, most teenagers arent able to b/feed anyway".

Its lovely that you have this misty-eyed wholesome view of MWs, HVs, Consultants and GPs. The fact is - GPs have very little knowledge on b/feeding - as do consultants. They dont "need" to know about b/feeding - just about baby/gynae biology. And if something doesnt work, well, they fill out a prescription and pass on drugs to fix it. Which is what formula does, isnt it? B/feeding support takes time and effort. Something else that HP's are sorely lacking in.

MWs and HVs knowledge can be very dated, and overflowing with anecdotal evidence in their recommendations.

One poster on here had to fight to be able to b/feed her newborn son - they wanted to whisk him off and give him formula because she had Gestational Diabetes, and his blood sugar was 'low'. They had never seen anyone hand express into a syringe like she proceeded to do, and 'warned' her that she could be harming her child by not giving him formula. And hey - guess what - she managed it.... Because she was right and they were not. This happens all over the place. All the time.

VVVQ i was not as determined as the lady who expressed into a syrienge, but similar situation. they wanted to whisk dd3 into scbu and formula feed her. i begged them to let me express abd try and raise sugars that way. we got them up, but not high enough, she ended up being tube fed for 24hours.

someone brought the popcorn yet?

and anybody seen hunker lately? [wink}