Help! We are looking for a 'non toxic' sofa

[princesschick]

Is there anyone out there who can suggest a company that sells real, proper non toxic and preferably organic sofas? I have found one company so far, Harlands, however they are £2,999 before they are covered in fabric. ouch This is way beyond our modest budget.

We have looked high and low, thinking that we had found two companies (ID Patriot and Sofa.com) only to be disappointed by their rather misleading sales blurb.

Ideally looking for something that doesn't contain any petrochemicals or nasties - main problem here being the flame retardants. We found out that standard flame retardants are tested on rabbits, fish, mice, rats.... and that some companies who stuff their cushions with feathers are using bi-products of the meat industry... that's foie grois geese to me and you.

Any help massively appreciated. Or I will be saving very hard and sitting on cardboard in the new home for a few months!!!

This thread is a little old now but just wondering if anyone did order the Eco Sofa?

jenny I don't know what your background is but I find your knowledge pretty impressive. I don't have allergies but I feel like I need to start a crusade against the chemicals used literally everywhere. I have no doubt that our schools, for example, must be pretty toxic.

Finally, does anyone sleep on a mattress that is flame retardant free? My understanding is that these mattresses are generally made of wool and therefore very expensive....

Charlieismydarlin:

My background is in testing and Trading Standards. I know a lot of people in the furniture business and there is small but growing collective that is trying to get things changed, particularly to reduce chemicals in furniture. I've worked closely with the government, too, who have been shockingly weak-minded in dealing with this issue. Someone in government who paid the price for speaking up is Terry Edge. I know Terry well and can vouch for his integrity. You can check out a lot more information about all this on his website: www.terryedge.weebly.com. Interest is growing in the media; keep an eye out over the next few months. I don't want to say any more because I don't want to tip off the chemical industry.

I sleep on a mattress that is FR-free. I bought it from Cottonsafe, one of the few companies who make FR-free mattresses that are also legal. It wasn't cheap but it's hand-made in the UK from the best natural ingredients and will hopefully last for the rest of my life. I've also bought FR-free bedding, which is alas also quite expensive. There is no legal requirement for duvets to be flame resistant but the all-powerful chemical industry often persuades manufacturers to stuff flame retardants into them anyway. For some odd reason, pillow fillings do come under the Furniture Regulations which again usually means flame retardants. But there are producers of FR-free pillows. They aren't always legal (probably don't pass the fillings test) but personally I don't need a flame resistant pillow!

As you've probably seen from this thread Eco Sofa make what are almost certainly quality products. If they are truly FR-free, however, they probably won't pass the fillings test under the Furniture Regs. I've said before that it would be good if the eco manufacturers got together and petitioned the government to change the law.

You're right that flame retardants are everywhere and it doesn't really bear thinking about where schools are concerned, especially because children are more vulnerable to them.

Just checked the link to Terry's website and am getting an error message. However, it seems that when you type "www.terryedge.weebly.com" into the your browser it takes you there.

Hi jennymor123

I realise this is an old thread but, I've just leaned about the FR issue. I was looking to replace my current sofa but, as everyone else here, I cannot spend tons of money on it unfortunately. You mentioned ikea using interliners but, from what I understand, interlines are also treated by FR so I am not really understanding how that works. Also, do you know by any chance if there's any other company selling affordable sofas without FR?

I've reached out to Made.com and they confirmed they do in many of their upholstery ( I had to return a large ottoman I just bought from them ). I have also asked Swoon editions since some of their sofas imply they use microfibre and feather for the filling and I am waiting for their answer.

Thanks so much!

Hi @Nadelemis
I don't know of anyone selling "affordable" sofas in the UK without flame retardants. I think by their nature a sofa with flame retardants is going to contain more natural and therefore likely to have more expensive "ingredients" than a cheaper foam sofa.
Annoyingly in this country you have to go on trust that a product does or doesn't contain chemical retardants as there is no requirement to label products - it's bloody disgusting that a flame retardant could be banned because of its detrimental effects on health but you would have no idea whether it was in your home or not because products aren't labelled. But I digress slightly!..
I've been up to see and meet with Ecosofa, and am as comfortable as I can be that they are able to offer a sofa without flame retardants.
I have no doubt in my mind at all that Cottonsafe offer products without flame retardants (and that meet the match test, but tbh I am less concerned about this) and have purchased mattresses from them. They have just brought out a range of sofas too and seem to be able to make one to your specifications.
Greenfibres make flame retardant free duvets, pillows etc. Can really recommend their Kapok pillows, just bought two and they are fab - much better than wool which I find hard. Once the kapok is worn in, it feels identical to feather I think.
Unfortunately none of the options are cheap. We are updating our items gradually as and when we can afford to.
Hope that helps.

Hi Nadelmis and MiniMum97,

Apologies for the late reply.

MiniMum97 is right about there not being many affordable FR-free sofas. You also have to be wary of just about very 'natural'/'organic' sofa provider in that they tend to cheat - either by using FRs when they claim they don't or not using FRs but not testing to the correct Regulations. If you knew for sure it was the latter, you might not mind (assuming you're more concerned about not having FRs in your sofa) but of course you'll never get them to tell you which way they're cheating.

The only company I know that provides sofas that are both FR-free and legal is Cottonsafe (who MiniMum97 also mentions). I've just bought one from them. I know the people who run the company very well and can attest that they are completely genuine. The sofas aren't cheap but they are hand-built using high quality materials. This means they will last for a very long time. Unlike most standard modern furniture which will fall apart after a few years. So, long-term, you will be saving money.

Interliners are a thorny problem. In one sense they're better than having a cover fabric treated with FRs but as you say they usually contain FRs too. Mostly these are the organo-phosphate kind which research increasingly shows are as bad as the brominated FRs used in cover fabrics. Made.com almost certainly lied to my neighbour, who asked them about FRs. They admitted they used them but claimed that they've never used DecaBDE (he wrote to them just after the Sunday Times had revealed that millions of sofas still contain Deca, even though it's been banned now for being too toxic). It's probably a lie because a) they had no reason to not use Deca before, i.e. it was legal and everyone else was using it, and b) in order to not use it, they would have had to get their suppliers to run special non-Deca treatments which would have been much more expensive, so, well . . .

MiniMum97 is also right about the fact there is no requirement for suppliers to tell you what chemicals they're using. We've discussed Ecosofa before. I'm wary because they all but admitted to a friend of mine that they don't test to all the required tests under the Furniture Regs - a common practice with organic sofa makers (who get away with it largely because Trading Standards are so strapped for cash they can't afford to buy a sofa to test it). But on balance, they're products probably do contain very few FRs.

I can also recommend Green Fibres' bedding/pillows.

By the way, Newsnight last week ran a good piece on the Furniture Regs' failings and the scandal of FRs that are mostly just poisoning us. You can still catch it on iPlayer: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b09jbbj1/newsnight-13122017 and there’s more detail on their website: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42343237.

Jenny

I forgot to mention, a cheaper option for buying FR-free sofa/mattresses is to buy abroad. This is perfectly legal, in that the Furniture Regs apply to suppliers not to consumers (although you would not be able to sell it on again in the UK). Most EU countries do not have FRs in their sofas/mattresses - Scandinavians and Germans particularly opposed to them. So you could check out EU manufacturers' websites and see if it's worth the cost of delivery. I'm sure you could also ask them about their FR policy before buying.

Hi @jennymor123

I have a few questions that I thought you might be able to answer if you don’t mind?...
Do you know if feather duvets and pillows could contain flame retardants. Not sure whether to get rid of my current ones. They do not have any labels relating to fire (eg that they are fire retardant or to keep away from fire).
Do you think I can assume that a bedspread that has a keep away from fire label will NOT contain FRs. presumably it wouldn’t warn you to keep it away from fire if it was treated?
I emailed fogarty duvets as I have an old wool duvet of theirs to ask if they apply FRs. They said they do not in the basis that they use natural products. I find this difficult to believe as they use a polypropylene liner. I don’t know about the FR properties of polypropylene but I am guessing it doesn’t have the natural FR properties of wool. Wondered what your thoughts were on this. My husband was going to use it until we can afford another Greenfibres one.

Thank you!

Hi MiniMum97,

My Mumsnet alerts don't seem to be working so I'll just have to remember to check this page every now and then.

For reasons no one knows for sure, bedding does not fall under the scope of the Furniture Regulations but pillows do. Or at least pillow fillings do. Possibly, the reason that duvets are not included is because in 1988 when the Regs came in, most UK people used blankets. This is yet another area of the Regs that has never been updated. Duvets can be incredibly flammable - a test house friend once held up a popular children's duvet, put a flame to it and it was an inferno in seconds.

By default, duvets fall under EU law, the General Product Safety Regulations. In essence, these Regs say you must provide 'safe' products. In practice, however, flammability of duvets throughout the EU is something that is not seen as necessary (probably becauses most EU countries do not want FRs in their bedding). However . . . the mighty FR industry, with its knack of leaning on manufacturers - "Have you seen how quickly your children's duvet goes up in flames; UK pillows are fire safe; you could be sued . . . " - means you do find FRs in UK bedding. Problem is, the manufacturer will be reluctant to tell you about it.

Where pillows are concerned, fillings must pass the normal fillings tests under the Furniture Regs, which are pretty severe. It's not easy to get feather fillings through these tests (or cotton or wool for that matter), not without using FRs anyway. Which is pretty scary when you think a child may have its head on a pillow for 12 hours a day.

A simple 'Keep Away from Fire' label is likely to be a company just trying to cover itself, e.g. I believe M&S put such a label on all their children's clothing, even on garments that don't require one. Whether or not that's a guarantee that a bedspread with such a label is not treated is debatable, I'd say. FRs aren't cheap, so unless a company has been really scared by the flammability of their products (and/or leaned on by the FR industry), it may be safe to assume they'd rather pay a few pennies for a label than several pounds for chemicals.

My understanding of polypropylene is that it burns similarly to polyester, i.e. will tend to melt away but leave nasty burns. Like any substance, I suspect it can be treated with FRs but, as said, that seems unlikely on cost grounds, especially when there are no flammability requirements for bedding.

Unless you smoke in bed or fall asleep surrounded by candles, it's not likely to be an issue I would think.

Personally, I'm angry with the Department for Business because it is sitting on much-needed changes to these Regulations. They are way out of date and important elements of them have been shown (by the same Department!) to not even work.

Jenny

Grrr! It's so frustrating. I feel like I am chucking away potentially perfectly good and lovely things because I just don't know. Ideally I would like to see FRs banned but as a absolute minimum products should be labelled then at the very least a consumer can make a choice.
I am contacting the manufacturer re my bedspread to see if they add FRs now which will give me an indication of whether my ones are likely to have them in. I love my bedspread, really don't want to throw it 😢

14 states in the USA have now banned FRs in furniture; 4 states have banned them in ALL products. The UK is the last sanctuary for FRs. And the industry needs us to stay on board, e.g. to help their current expansion into Africa, India, etc. Big money at stake!

jennymore123:

Hi, firstly - thanks for the knowledge conveyed in this thread. As an MCS sufferer trying to find a non-toxic suite this has proven invaluable. Funnily enough, my MCS began a year ago exactly with new carpets being laid and Xmas 2017 I reached a tipping point in symptom exacerbation when we took delivery of a new (very smelly) suite! Should’ve known better...

Anyway, on the point about purchasing from European/international companies, I approached Fama in Spain back in January 2018 having seen one of their models in a local stockist using the same premise you describe. Their response as follows:

“Thank you very much for your interest in our products. Calessi is definitely a good choice. Unfortunately we have to comply with this British regulations and it is not possible for us to send a sofa to UK without the flame retardant applied.”

I pressed them on this, and got the following:

“I am afraid that is not possible (to buy direct from Fama in Spain). We are suppliers and we work through retailers. We have stores in Spain, Uk and others countries around the world. We cannot sell directly to any customer.”

Fama are a supplier/manufacturer, and a European retailer may have a different response. However, first they say they can’t sell me a sofa without FR applied, then change this to they can’t actually sell me a sofa directly (which is it, or perhaps it’s both - if they could get around being not able sell me directly, they may have to apply FR regardless). I appreciate her are still a multitude of toxic chemicals in an FR-free sofa (polyurethane foam, glues, fibreboard, etc), but every little less helps.

I’ve spoken with Roger @ EcoSofa and their products are an order of magnitude more affordable than Cambridge/Cottonsafe (there may be a reason for this per your earlier comments). I did raise the points from this thread with him but didn’t get a conclusive answer other than “no harmful chemicals are used”.

After 3 months being sofa-less, the search continues...

Thanks again.

grabell What sofa did you buy in the end?

@jennymor123 I have read a number of your posts regarding flame retardants. I wanted to ask you if you know whether or not flame retardants used on closed cell polyethylene foam break down in the home into dust particles. I ask as I have an underlay made from this under my engineered wood flooring. I am thinking of lifting it and putting cork underlay underneath instead. However, if the retardant is stable on foam this may not be necessary. I have written to the manufacturer of the foam to find out what FR they use. Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Hi, came across this thread while looking for a non toxic sofa. Thought I'd add to the discussion as it seems to rumble on every once in a while. In a useful way, and others may come across it while searching for clean sofas in the UK. I'm formerly the owner and developer of the non toxic, chemical free sofas for Harlands Organic Furnishings. Sadly we were ahead of the game at a time when clean materials were almost prohibitively expensive and the sofas had to be handmade by individual upholsterers. Our method of upholstery was time consuming. Hence the price of our sofas. I couldn't make the price affordable apart from at the top end of the market so gave up the business. We were able to develop a non toxic sofa/chair which passed FR testing because we used wool and custom built metal frame sprung units with a wool-kevlar underlay. Kevlar does not off gas or migrate like other chemicals. Alan Watson and I worked together for a period of time to develop our ideas. The underlay we used passed FR testing which included the full set of tests which meant that we could use FR free top fabrics. Is it possible that Ecosofa has used the same type of underlay? I haven't investigated them yet so don't know the answer but I can confirm that an underlay of some sort that passes UK FR testing is the only way a non toxic sofa can comply with current UK requirements. It just depends what underlay and chemicals (if any) are used. I'm glad there are companies like Ecosofa making more affordable options. In terms of cleaner options a company that only has one layer of FR will still always be a better option than where every layer is treated with FR chemicals which is the normal approach especially with foam filled sofas. Most standard companies will likely use a treated top fabric too. Until there are trully chemical free options choose the company that is reducing the amount of chemicals you and your family are exposed to rather than writing them off for what may be a compromise that still means they are less toxic than standard products.

Hi, you've probably already found your answer but all foam products for the home will have been treated with flame retardents. For anyone else who comes acorss this thread. There is a new generation of underlay called Breathe. Maybe that would work.

What do we do if we cannot afford non toxic sofa? What are our options? As nice as Cottonsafe/Cambridge futon sofa is, it doesn’t look like a “normal” sofa and can’t afford it right now

I'm having the same problem. If not able to buy an eco sofa then I think IKEA is probably the best option. If you have the option of offgassing somewhere for a month or two before using then that would be a good idea. It's crazy that we don't have affordable access to non toxic basic home items.

Do manufacturers like ecosofa, cottonsafe and Cambridge futon sofa etc offer finance on credit?

Maybe that is the solution for people who can’t afford the price of a chemical free and fire retardant free sofa

@grabell your last post (year old I know) you mentioned “I’ve spoken with Roger @ EcoSofa and their products are an order of magnitude more affordable than Cambridge/Cottonsafe” how is EcoSofa more affordable? I looked at their prices and they are more expensive unless I am missing something?

Hi - I know this thread is very old now, but could anyone point me in the direction of a flame retardant free sofa bed? It’s going to live in a playroom so I’d really like one that isn’t doused in flame retardant chemicals. I’ve only found one so far but it has wooden sides/arms and I was hoping to find one with padded arms to reduce chances of toddlers banging their head on it.

cambridgefutons.com (same people as cottonsafenaturalmattress.co.uk but cheaper) make it with the wood arms and without, but i'm guessing with a kid the armless one could mean that they could fall off the edge.

Does anyone here know who the owner of cottonsafe/cambridge futon is because maybe ask if they could customise it and make one with padded arms and back?

@jennymor123 You mentioned buy abroad? Do you know of any suppliers? What about buying from IKEA abroad?