Care home contract says I’m liable to pay fees

[Crunchybiscuit1]

Hello everyone

I’ve been sent a care home contract for my mum. The Terms and Conditions say that the contract would be between the Client (ie me) and the care home, not between the Resident (my mum) and the care home. Is this normal?

The Ts and Cs also say that the Client (me) is liable for the fees and agrees to pay the fees. Does this simply mean that I’m responsible for ensuring that the fees are paid eg from my mum’s bank account or by arranging Local Authority funding when Mum’s money depletes?

Or does it mean that I would be personally liable for paying the fees out of my own money if necessary and that I would be personally liable for my mum’s debts?

Why are you the client and not your mum?

Do you have POA for health and money to make decisions for your mum, It should be with who is paying the bills. Ring Age Concern who might be able to give advice.

You’re right to be cautious here. When I was looking into care homes, it was absolutely the case that I was the “customer”, so when the parent runs out of cash it’s your responsibility to get the invoice paid (or move them out)

I would take it to mean your second suggestion, that you are responsible for seeing the fees are paid from your mother's funds/local authority. But I would want that to be clarified, or I wouldn't sign it.

I don't remember my mother's care home contract containing that wording.

You should ask for written clarification.

When DM moved into a care home the contract was between her and the home, they asked for bank statements to verify she had the money to pay.

Even then, I think the contract would be wirh the mother, and OP would sign as attorney for the mother

OP shouldn't have personal liability for this

Do you have POA? If not then you can't be responsible for ensuring the fees are paid.

I seem to remember something on here in the past that said absolutely do not sign to say you are responsible for fees. Even as POA you are paying on behalf of the client, who is the parent, and that some care homes will try their luck with this.
I know when my partners father went into the care home, he refused to sign that contract making him liable.

My mums is very clear that she is the client. I have POA and had to prove that she had 2 years fees in ready money. She doesn't have capacity so I am responsible for making sure that all the bills are paid. Presumably if she outlives the money I will be responsible for moving her into somewhere the council pay for. Hoping she dies before that.

Thanks for all your replies. I’ve emailed the care home to ask for clarification but from what you’ve all said it sounds like this isn’t right. I have POA for my mum, but would expect to sign a contract between her and the care home on her behalf as POA, and as I understand my role as POA is to ensure that her fees are paid but I’m not required to personally be liable for paying the fees. This is such a minefield at an already very stressful time!

Like another poster, my partner and his brother were asked to sign this sort of contract for their mother. His brother has a legal background and they refused as it was essentially holding them liable for fees if their mother’s money ran out.

@Crunchybiscuit1 if you have time please let us know how the care home respond. Absolutely do not sign anything which indicates you would personally have to pay the fees.

@Mcdhotchoc you may not have to move her if/when her funds run out. Unless you have chosen a particularly expensive care home, the local authority may well keep her in that placement as they won't be able to find anywhere cheaper who will accept her. That is what happened with my mother.

I'd expect the council will have a set rate they're willing to pay and the care home would accept that rate, if your DM's funds ran out. Would be terrible publicity for the home if they forced her to leave

@Dancingsquirrels it's a negotiated rate. The LA have a set rate they say they are willing to pay. Care home refuse it becaise it is ridiculously low and they cannot provide the necessary care for that amount. The two sides then negotiate a rate they are both prepared to accept. (My mother's care home manager explained the process to me.)

Don't sign it. The client should be the resident. Maybe they can say that if she is no longer able to pay then you must remove her or help her seek funding from LA, but they can't demand you personally pay. Well I guess they could but I wouldn't accept that.

Agree. 100% do not sign something making yourself liable when the service is being provided to your mum and you are just acting for her as LPA. She is definitely the client and not you.

My friends recently agreed with care home that when/ if their mums savings run out they will pay £80 a week (each!!) top up on local authority payment as LA won’t cover full cost.

I just had a look at my mother's contract with the care home. It is phrased similarly to yours @Crunchybiscuit1 , but it did only mean that I was responsible for organising payments, there was no question of me personally paying.

In the contract my mother is the 'service user' and I am her 'adviser' and it says "The service user or his/her adviser is responsible for the payment of the weekly fee".

(The LA always ask if you will top up, but you don't have to say yes. When my mother moved to LA funding I said no, and they agreed to cover the whole cost of her placement.)

I think all care homes have their own rules. My relative was in one where you had to prove you had funds for a minimum of three years but if the money ran out after that and you were eligible for council funding they’d accept the council rate.

@Secretseverywhere Yes my mother's care home worked on that type of basis too, if you had been there for a few years they would keep you on as LA funded.

But they would not accept the stated LA rate. The LA offer was £680 pw, but my mother’s room cost £1200 - huge gap. The manager told me the LA would not find anywhere else which would accept her for £680 and he was right. After several weeks of negotiating the care home agreed to pay the care home £1100 pw.

Exactly this. The care home is trying it on. If you sign to say you're the client and accept liability for the fees, they can come after your money as well as your mum's.

Do not sign it. I expect there is a clause that says when the money runs out they will expect you to pay the shortfall between the LA contribution and the actual cost invoiced by the care home, aka the notorious top up fees. Do not sign it.

How would a care home 'come after your money'? That would be impossible, you could just give them a month's notice and move your relative elsewhere. Top ups from family are voluntary, and it is the local authority who request top ups not the care home.

This is not true. The care home gives you the contract with the top up fees in it. When your relative’s money runs out, the LA will then take over paying the fees but there is a maximum they will pay. For example, if your relative pays £1400 per week, the LA contribution to this is usually about £900 per week. Therefore the care home will demand the adult child pay the difference (£500 per week in this case). The care home will ONLY allow the adult children to sign to say that in the event of top up fees, they will pay them indefinitely until the person dies.

If you refuse to pay the care home after signing to say you will, they can and do throw your relative out.

If you refuse to sign in the beginning, most care homes won’t let your relative move in the home in the first place. It’s sign to say you’ll pay top up fees on behalf of your parent, indefinitely for life - or sod off. When it comes to top up fees, a care home will only allow the adult children to be liable. Care homes are largely privately run for huge profits, and they have the local authorities over a barrel. There is a shortage of places so they know they can do it. And they do do it. It took me along time to find a care home for my mother which did not include top up fees. They are rare. But they do exist.