What's the best way to help a parent with a passport

[TrayofRoses]

My mother is aging in her 70s. Her passport is out of date approx 2 years. She asked me to help her renew it.

So I know there are two ways to do it now. The old fashioned way of getting the paper application or online. My mother never learned how to use the internet or technology but either way she wants me to help her.

I remember the first time she was doing the passport about 2014 approx, she gave me a picture that would have been taken in the 70s or 80e when she was in her 20s or 30s. Even though she would have been in her 60s. That was a difficult situation. She was insisting on using that old picture but it just wasn't suitable.

A few years ago she needed help with updating another personal government type of ID. I don't know what it is. I can't remember the exact date as such. If it was 2022 or 2023 or even in the years before that. It was difficult for her to get pictures. She had to go to the pharmacy a few times to get pictures because they were not suitable - she was smiling, she wasn't looking at the camera, she had hair in her face, etc. It took her a few times.

Anyways I suggested her get some new pictures but she is insisting on using whatever pictures she already has. I don't know if they are 4 or 5 years old or older.

I a passport picture from recent times is what's needed.

Do I insist that she gets new pictures? Or do I use an older picture.

I briefly looked in my email but I am not able to find a link to an online passport picture from before.

She might produce a physical cope of a passport picture and want me take a picture of it on my phone. I don't know.

So what is the best way to move forward with this? Does she need an updated picture? I think she wants me to do it online for her.

A passport is very handy @TrayofRoses for ID purposes we have found. If you don't have a driving licence. Mum needed ID recently for her solicitor and that's why we got her one.

Oh dear op this does not sound a happy situation.

Why does she need a new passport?

Simply ‘I will help you apply online for a new passport. You need a picture lesson than one month old. I can take it or you can get
one from the shop. If you won’t do this I run I cannot help you. You cannot use an old
photograph. It is against the passport rules”

just to clarify though- you don’t need an app. I’m unsure why she went to the chemist.

max speilamnn is your best best

A local pharmacy did passport and other pictures.

Just take her to the Post Office with completed application form and old passport and they do everything, including taking new photos.

It does sound very much as if she has cognitive decline @TrayofRoses in which case it’s impossible to have a sensible conversation about anything, especially when their pre dementia character was also ornery as heck. I had a fun conversation with DF about why a 5 year out of date passport photo could not be used as proof of ID, where he seemed to think that I was personally making up the rules to be belligerent.

If it’s not just a repeat passport I think she needs to get someone to validate the photos as being her. If that step is required you could line someone up to be the fall guy not to sign it off - if it’s someone like a GP particularly a male one, then she might be more inclined to accept that. Or failing that just do what she asks and submit it with the ridiculous photo. The photo criteria is very strict so unless it meets all the background requirements it will more than likely fail an online submission or just bung it all to the post office for them to decline and then either she will be more amenable to doing what is needed or she will have moved on to some other crusade.

Dear mum do as you are told or I am out.

All you need to do is pop down to a branch of Max Speilman or a large Post Office with your mum, they will do the rest! Take her old passport with you.

Go with her to a post office that deals with passport renewals. They will tell her the photo has to be recent, and should be able to take the photo on the spot.

Do the application on your phone and take a picture as part of the application process. Stick a white sheet over a door and stand her in front of it if you dont have a pale wall

Take her to one of the shops that does passport photos
it costs about £5
they transmit it digitally directly to the Passport office
you just reference the photo number on her application

I'm not willing to take pictures on my phone because she will likely just view it as a camera taking pictures and it's time for smiling when a neutral face will be needed. I think maybe she will likely listen more to an organisation or an establishment taking a picture.

Out local post office doesn't do passport pictures. There are other services in some pharmacies. I will just after to direct her to one of those places.

She is still obsessed tonight at getting the passport renewal done. Even though it's Saturday night and I don't have any pictures to get it done. Tomorrow is Sunday and a lot of places will be closed and it's also promised a wash out where I am and nothing will be done tomorrow. She still wants to rush this with urgency with no respect for my time or energy. It's not likely she's flying out from the country any time soon.

She's being very stubborn about the pictures. She wants to use an older picture she has and I think it's about 4 or 5 years old now.

I think it’s time for “Mum I am ready to help you whenever you are ready to follow the government rules for the application. If you’re not going to follow the rules, I am not going to waste time on this”. You are seemingly unwilling to say no to her. And if she is starting to suffer with some kind of cognitive impairment, you are going to need to perfect the art of the kind, firm NO, for both your sakes.

Take yourself out of the equation. If she needs a new photo, it's cheaper just to send her to the Post Office and they will do the whole application for her.

If there's significant cognitive decline involved, then you won't win a logical argument. Your best bet is probably to deflect and divert until you can get her to a Post Office or someone else who will do the whole process - she's more likely to agree with rules from a neutral stranger.

For the photo, let them know that positive instructions such as 'close your mouth', 'look serious', 'open your eyes' are likely to get a better result than negative ones like 'don't blink', 'don't smile'.

She might want to use an old photo, but the rules are that she must use a photo taken within the 28 days before applying for the passport.

We've used a local photo shop to get the passport photo done - they know what the passport office are going to accept. Its just easier that way. And they are much more fussy than they used to be.

Is she actually planning to go abroad?

Just send her to Max Spielman. She can argue with them and at least you are not involved.

They are very very good to be fair but if she won’t follow instructions it won’t work.

You’re just repeating the same information over again. If you don’t want a solution then there isn’t one.

Otherwise book a day when you can take her to a post office that does renewals and take her then. Tell her that’s how they do renewals now, you’ve checked and it’s the only way she can do it. Let them take the picture and submit the forms, you can just take her or be there if she needs any more help. Every time she mentions say “we’ll sort it when we go next Tuesday”.

No one here is going to be able to tell you how to convince your mum not to smile in a photo if she’s not listening to reason.

I am sorry but the obsessive urgency around a non urgent task is very similar to what DM started displaying over the past 6 months or so and she has a diagnosis of probable dementia. She is still very on the ball about dates and other things - much more so than DF - but unfortunately a lot of her executive functioning wiring seems to be misfiring, particularly her ability to differentiate between an urgent and non urgent task when my input is needed, along with an intransigence to do something any way but hers.

Thank you for your reply. It's good to read it because in a sense it captures what I am going through I think. My mother can be on the ball about many things. She can still manage a lot of her daily tasks of living but there are many things that is just on right. It's executive functioning and comprehension, reasoning, behavioural and emotional. In recent times I observed that she is sleeping with a tubberware box and she's pissing into it every night in her room and it remains there. It's just so so so odd.

I am getting no support. All my siblings live abroad. They are not at home to see what's happening and when they do come home, she can act but often has tremendous outbursts of RAGE that she spares just for me as a reaction to any change in her environment and having anyone home on holidays. A lot of the time things reminds me of autism with her. She never had autism when I was younger.

So my siblings don't understand and any time I raised concerns they don't believe me. They want to write it off as something else. I did approach her GP a few times but they always ask for memory loss and I never observed memory loss. Unless if the recent observation could be considered memory loss in that she's forgetting how to go to the toilet.

It looks to me as if GPs want to see more obvious signs of memory loss before they find a problem to consider.

This passport thing, it's just something else in a long list of stuff. The urgency is unreal and it's causing me migraine. In that I work hard all week and then I am faced with this and there's no reasoning or logic with her. A lot of the time it's like dealing with a toddler. You can tell a toddler no and they have a temper tantrum. I have to skirt around the word 'no' many times never actually saying it with things like - 'im sick right now, I will look at it later' and it's enough to put a pause on whatever it is.

Dang I had typed a long post but lost it.
Worth letting GPs surgery know about her latest symptoms, they are unlikely to do anything but good to have it logged for when it escalates ( sorry it is a when not an if).

Join us in the Cockroach cafe for non judgemental support with elderly DPs. I don’t have siblings myself, just an amazing DH who is picking up a lot of the load to just about save my sanity, but it’s not unusual to have useless siblings apparently.

You do know that even if you resolve this passport issue there will be no thanks and it will be on to the next matter - it is unfortunately the way her brain is now wired. Therefore you need to focus on self preservation as much as possible by doing what’s least hassle for you and trying not to engage in pointless discussions - easier said than done I know.

Can you apply on your phone? If so it’s simple, you just need to take a photo against a plain light background with her not smiling, it screens the photo for you and tells you if it’s ok. Whole process is very quick and easy. Alternatively (and more expensive) she needs to go to somewhere that does photos, our dry cleaners does, it’s also more expensive to use the paper form

Yes, she has to get new photographs to apply for a new passport, she can't renew if her existing passport is out of date.

I did a passport application for my mum, she’s housebound but needed a form of Id and had to surrender her driving licence- I did it all on my phone, including taking a photo, she/I had to nominate a validation signatory - who was notified by email. Tell your mum that’s what needs to be done.

Or let her go to the post office with a paper application and let them tell her that the old photo that she has is unsuitable?

Please note that post offices will not do the form for her, she needs to take it away and complete it, £10 surcharge for the paper form. If she is refusing to comply with the photo requirement you need to simply be clear with her, no passport. From personal experience, cognitively people are often more compliant in the mornings, no idea why but evening is always the worst