Wills, probate etc

[SockFluffInTheBath]

We lost MIL last year and FIL has done nothing, to the point the bank has now found out she’s died and has frozen their joint account so he can’t make any payments. DH managed to get someone who would talk to him at the bank, and they need to see her will. Solicitors won’t release it without written permission from
FIL and BIL (not sure why, no idea how this works). FIL is rather unhelpfully huffing and blowing that they don’t need the will, it’s his money and they should just give it to him. How does probate work- do the solicitors do it automatically now they know she has died? DH has done all the official stuff to date, but it seems never ending. He’s talking about walking away since every form he fills in feels like losing her a bit more, and he’s finding it really hard.

We used the Tell Us Once website when FIL died earlier this year. You need the death certificate and the registrar gave us a reference number I think.

When my DH died our joint accounts carried on as normal, they just removed him from them. All the bank needed was a copy of the death certificate, they didn’t need the will. Perhaps the bank are questioning what’s going on, as they weren’t immediately informed of your MIL’s death.

If probate solicitors have been appointed, then they will definitely apply for probate. Everything takes a long time to resolve. It must be very difficult for her DH and your DH.

Joint accounts they just carry on as normal as the husband or wife just automatically inherit. Why do you need probate. Bank didn't even need to see the will.

DH did that, but FIL said he would sort the bank.

No idea why the bank want the will if a joint account should carry on, they asked for it so DH is trying to get it. Doesnt help that FIL either refuses to talk about it or is abusive (on the phone to the bank).

Does probate happen automatically if it’s required?

You have to apply for probate.

Maybe the bank wouldn't want the will if FiL had told them immediately when his wife died.

Probate will almost certainly be required. It needs to be applied for on line. FIL can do it himself or the executor on the will can do it. The joint account should carry on, but they may need to she the death certificate, because officially it would be illegal for a dead person to have a bank account, even jointly, so they do need to take MIL off. If the bank ever suspected fraud of something on the account, (say FIL made a really big payment they suspected might be a scam, or heaven forbid, someone did steal FIL details and start using the account) they would potentially need to check both account holders. If one is long dead, that could cause them to have to lock the whole account for ages.

Thanks @stichguru they asked for the death certificate, which they’ve had, then asked for the will. We’re being made to feel like we’re trying hoodwink the bank/FIL for money, but all we want is to not have to bankroll him indefinitely. He’s so uncooperative and bloody minded it’s tempting to just leave him to it.

Have you or yoir DH seen the will?

I held accounts jointly with my mum. When she died I took her death certificate in and they then transferred to my name only but I did this shortly after she died. I don’t think a solicitor would start the probate process unless instructed to do so by the executors, by the sound of things your fil and bil and they will need to be paid to carry out the work. You don’t need a solicitor to wind up an estate. You firstly need to calculate the value of the estate, any inheritance tax, if owed, is payable before grant of probate. Once probate has been granted, the executors collect and distribute to beneficiaries any bequests. I believe age concern have leaflets explaining the process. I expect the bank are being cautious owing to fraud. If your fil is being difficult, the account will remain frozen, bills won’t be paid and your mil’s affairs will not be settled. My mum died at the end of last May and her affairs were pretty much sorted by the end of the year. Whilst you don’t have to rush, there is also no benefit to letting it lie for a long time and questions might be asked.

Op - I’d be very tempted to leave him to it if he’s being difficult. This is your dh’s mum, I’m sure he’s mourning too and can really do without it being more difficult.

No, because FIL is delaying giving permission for it to be released by the solicitors. They both went in and did their wills together about 15 years ago, then MIL went in and adjusted hers but never said anything about it so no one knows what’s in it.

Thanks @katgab I’ll look for the age concern leaflets. FIL is a truly horrible person and is not mourning in any way, DH is in bits. Tempting as it is to walk away, sadly it’s not the right thing to do.

My late DM died intestate, we just gave the bank and official copy of the death certificate.
We sold her house when she was in a care home with dementia (to pay her bill) and didn’t need to show anything to the EA or solicitors.
She had signed a POA so that was all that was needed for us to take care all her financial needs and @affairs. Strongly recommend.

Sorry that your FIL is so difficult , OP. Grief can take people very differently. Not to mention getting old…

PILs had/have LPoA for health and finance but, you guessed it, FIL refuses to let them be used.

"Adjusted hers" - that is what is going on here. Something he doesnt like, I'd venture. "It's my money" etc. You need to get that will.

I thought it was only single people that it has to go to probate ??
if your married you just carry out the wishes in the will ?

I think you’re probably right, however, regardless of his wants the bank wants the will to unfreeze his accounts so it looks like we’ll see… fwiw we’re not expecting anything, there’s no grasping going on- other than not wanting to keep paying his bills and food.

I haven’t the first clue. DH came back muttering about it and we’re so tired and scrambled the internet is as clear as mud right now.

It's not as simple as that. Where there is a will, the executor(s) appointed in the will should be sorting out the deceased's money and other assets. That might not be the spouse. If there's no will an administrator (usually a family member) has to step and do the same job as the executor, but will distribute the estate in accordance with the intestacy laws. In either case, probate might be needed, but it might not. It all depends on what's in the estate and the policy of the banks and other financial services companies involved.

When my Dad died the bank simply transferred the joint account into my Mum's name and the one asset he had in his own name (an ancient ISA with very little in it) they were happy to transfer to her on sight of the will and the death certificate, because it was below the limit they've set for releasing assets without probate. The same went for another ancient investment he took out through an independent financial adviser. The house was in joint names so simply passed to Mum. So no probate needed at all.

It will be a different story when she dies because of the house. Nothing to do with the fact that she has a will or the fact that she's single.

All wills go through probate, even if married. If he’d have gone to the bank not long after her death with her death certificate, they’d have made the account for his name only provided it was a relatively small sum (not sure the amount but I think it’s a few thousand) in the account. It sounds like this gentleman is difficult and going along his own path which is why this account is now frozen. The bank have told him what he has to do but he refuses, probably because, as another poster has said, due to the adjustments to his late wife’s will. There is no reason not to wind up an estate in a reasonable time scale.

@SockFluffInTheBath - I’m sorry your fil is being so difficult. I get that leaving him to it isn’t the right thing to do but I’m not sure what else you can do. I’m not sure bankrolling him indefinitely is helping sort this out. Easy for me to say as an outsider though.

I needed probate when my father died, even though everything was left to my mother, because he had quite a large sum (20k+) in a savings account and the bank refused to release it without probate.

Different financial institutions have different limits as to what they are prepared to just release to the 'next of kin' without getting probate - NS&I is very low at only £5k I think .

Not all wills go through probate. When my father died the joint account just became my mother’s, the house became hers in trust, and the banks holding his other, sole, accounts were happy to release the contents to me as executor once they had seen the death certificate and will (this surprised me) ,I think because none held. more than about £40k. When I told their solicitor that all assets had been chased down and transferred (and there was no IHT as all left to wife) , she said no need for probate.

So, it isn’t inevitable. But the admin dos have to be done. Presumably, he is executor? Or do you not know?

I wasn’t aware that not all wills went to probate as all I’ve had dealings with have despite not being particularly big estates. Thanks to those who clarified.

Delighted to hear someone say this.

My elderly relative's husband died, it turned out that pretty much everything - house, savings - was in joint names, so it went straight to her. There was a will which left everything to her but she took no steps to get probate.

I have recently said she should check two things with her solicitor
a) about updating the land registry so the house is in her sole name
b) whether there would be any issues in her case arising from not getting probate

I think it's okay...? I guess I'll find out when she goes (if she makes it into her nineties it may all be moot as it will have all gone on care fees).