Contribution to DF, 80, housing? Can't think straight, help me with family Comms please

[Alwaysfixingsh1t]

Hello elderly parents board. Thanks for all the informative and supportive of carers threads. I have used it a fair amount to make sure I am not losing my mind over the last few yrs. This is my first post, it's a bit rambly, I am not the best writer I think, I want to get the info across though.

NC'd for this in case family pick it up. I would like some advice on how to approach the following with my family. I am mid-40's, 3 DC, work full-time in a really busy role, DH also works FT and travels away every 3 weeks to London.

My DF, 80, is on the full state pension, no other private pension or other revenue stream. He has limited savings but his main home is mortgage free. We are not UK based so tax rules mean he must keep the home to ensure there is asset to pay for care if needed. He lived in very rural area all his life. My DM, DF wife, passed away in 2023 of bowel cancer, she had been ill for 1.5 yrs prior. It was a tough few years for all of us, lots of support from one side of country to another, lots of driving, supporting at hospital and home while DM went through treatment. DF was wobbly during and after after my DM illness and when she passed away. He seemed and sometimes still does - totally lost. It became clear that he wasn't coping well living on his own, mostly due to social isolation and I think depression. I sat him down (many times tbh) and finally got to place where he made it clear he wanted to be close to his children. Myself and 2 older DBs, we all live in the same city.

My DH and I, separate from my DF situation, saved all we could and using our savings decided to purchase an apartment in Feb 2025 as family investment, it is close to our main home. We indicated to my DF that he could trial living there, being close to us and my DBs, we understood that this could be long term.

DF accepted and transitioned, on and off, over and back to rural home with support from all his children, since April 2025, but then stayed full time since October 2025 to now. Winters in his house are freezing (poor heating system and he's tight with cranking the heat in winter). He doesn't mind the cold but doesn't really engage his social network and will only call DC when in need of assistance, a 3.5 hour drive away. DF has transitioned ok-ish to the city, it was a massive change for him. He drives, has a GP, a physio (my insistence that he has this), a cleaner (again, I insisted). Physically he is okay-ish. Lots of aches and pains from various surgeries over the last 7 yrs, some incontinence. He has no hobbies and it's totally impossible to get him to take up anything - we have tried so often, flat refusal. Mentally he can be very down, I am sure he has at least mild depression - he ruminates a lot. He is very able to wash and feed himself, no personal care needed at this stage. He visits or has visits from myself and geo-closest DB 4-5 times a week. It tends to be me more often than not. It can be a lot, I am trying my best with boundaries and managing my own physical/mental health. Not sure why I share all this - I am offloading while I am in the flow!

My DH and I pay for the mortgage on the apartment, the upkeep, the management fees (2k annually). My father pays no rent,
but does pay the utility bills. My brothers do not contribute, I have never asked them to. My husband has indicated that he would like my brothers and my DF to nominally contribute to the management fees. DB1, he and DSIL work FT in good careers, 3 young children, they have an apartment which "pays its own way", they make a small income from this. DB2, he is the only earner in his family, skilled occupation, v senior, 2 DC one of which is in university, one in A-level equiv yr. I should say I get on really well with my DBs and DSILs; they are important to me and feel I can rely on them for all of the DF stuff. There is no resentment, and between us 3 the Comms can be quite reasonable.

This item though, the contribution, is not something I have discussed with DBs - as this was all a "trial" but it has become normal now. We are not looking for contribution to the mortgage, but would it be acceptable to split the cost of the management fees as a proposal? I sometimes feel stuck in the middle with my family (opaque communications is the culture of the family, since forever, with DF/DM and then like Chinese whispers to my DBs, bad planning on my Dad's and Mum's part - which honestly I am often frustrated by, so bloody frustrated) and my DH who is none of those things and is always thinking 5 steps ahead about our financial future. If anyone has any ideas on how to approach this and if it a reasonable ask I would be all ears.

Thanks for reading - sorry such a long post.

It's not complicated. It is just emotional. With DF in "trial" mode, selling the house was never explored in detail.

Selling doesn't automatically mean new house/apartment purchase is easy though. Apartments in my city are not cheap, average 400k for 1-bed in my area. DF house worth at most 200k.

I would have a family meeting with your DB’s about long term strategy for your Dad.

I agree with @TheatreTheatre. You and your brothers need to have a discussion about your Dad’s longterm needs and how best to meet them.

BTW, you’ve been amazing so far, many people wouldn’t have done what you have for him. 💐

Personally I dont think your brothers should ne contributing anything towards management fees. Your dad needs to be covering some of that or all of that.

A serious chat needs to be had about the house, ideally it needs to be sold and he pays you a small amount.

What would you be doing with the place if your father wasn't there? I presume it wouldn't just be sat empty.

Either way, I dont think its your brothers job to be paying towards anything.

@Pinkbluegreeb I’m on the fence as the OP is ensuring that their Dad is safely and comfortably housed close to them, which is a huge benefit to all three siblings.

Morally, I think that her brothers should also do something for their Dad - it doesn’t necessarily have to be contributing to the management fees, but they shouldn’t leave everything to their sister to pay for and. manage.

Of course it’s not unusual for one sibling to end up doing the majority for an elderly parent…and it’s often the woman. 😕

Your dad should pay rent from either renting out his house - probably best idea - or sale of house . Imho.

Thanks for more replies. @bruford appreciate that. ❤

It helps all siblings so much having DF close by, the weekends away from our families are now gone as he is close to us and we can just pop in. It was getting hard, one of us with him every wknd or second wknd, he had refused all outside help so we would spend the wknd cleaning, cooking, filling freezer. It was knackering.

Here I have forced him to have a cleaner with no kick back, he has found a nice supermarket that does great ready meals when one of us can't cook for him. He is more independent here even if he misses his home so much.

I will call a family meeting I think, with DBs first, and DH involved. I will outline finances and, whilst not interested in DBs contributing, but using DF assets to pay his way fairly as he should.

Money was always opaque to me as a kid, my DPs never really talked about it, Dad was blue collar worker, a lot of cash in hand work. As an adult, well educated in good job, I always felt I had to pay for my parents if we went for dinner etc. This flowed through to this apartment situ - but it's too much to be accountable for - not for years and not fair on my super DH or my kids when you think about it.

I do think DF could be in that apartment for 5 yrs easily. He is getting great care, is well fed, nice social life. The stats on length of time in care home is really eye-opening. He has 80% chance of being in his own home - mind boggled. I always assumed it would be the opposite! My DF has said it so often "oh I will be in a care home soon". Maybe not!

Thanks all x

@Alwaysfixingsh1t My Dad (87) is living independently in a flat, he couldn’t manage in the house after my SM died even with help
(he was having falls). When he’s feeling grumpy, he also says that he’ll be in a home soon, but I have a feeling that he’ll be fine in his flat for a while yet, he’s got a cleaner, he’s in the town centre with easy access to shops, doctor’s, etc.

@BruFord that's great, good on him and you guys for support. My dad v wobbly on his legs in the morning, he was scared of falling in big house in the middle of nowhere with no support in place, hence the trial closer to us. Fingers crossed I get this sorted, long game but it's time to get the serious chats started.

Have you actually read the criteria for the Fair Deal scheme? I think you'll find that it only applies in the case of nursing home care? Your Dad doesn't seem to need nursing home care yet. The Citizens Information have a good summary with relevant links.

You have decided this singlehandedly and your husband agreed...how the other siblings will have to contribute to a property as they are not on the deeds

You need to consider 'deprivation of assets' as if your father sells his house and pays you rent he could be in this position and you're profiting from it, which is not allowed. If he ever needs a social care financial assessment and you have profited from him the office of the public guardian could require the money back from you and would go through the courts to get it.

@gardenflowergirl Ugh, I don’t think anyone had considered that.

I don’t think that the OP intends to ask her Dad for rent, but what would you advise? Her Dad doesn’t sound safe alone in his house and far safer/more comfortable in the apartment. The OP and her DH sound financially stretched though.

@thankfulnessisnotbizarre definitely not a single handed decision, it was discussed at length across the family. As it was a trial we said we would discuss finances when it was clearer. We're getting to that stage, that's all.

@TheLongRider yes good point, nursing homes not care homes, apols, from what i see the majority of homes in Ireland are both in one? I'm going on friend's input and what I read. In my mind I'm thinking nursing requirements, DF far from that thankfully.

@gardenflowergirl no it wouldn't be financially profiting, I've looked into it with my husband, we can charge fair market rent which would offset the mortgage for us and we would have little left over after our tax requirements. My DF would be considered as paying living expenses, which is a fair requirement for his situation. We could put a contract in place to cover the details. But importantly it would mean the mortgage is managed and one less payment for us to consider. We're not on the bread line, we're doing fine, not wealthy but we are well able to manage our expenses.

This has been a valuable thread for me, thanks everyone for all the input.

I don't think you understand the concept of Deprivation of assets. You need to get legal advice on this as you may not be making a profit but your father is covering your costs and you will be left with a capital asset paid for by him and if he comes to needing care in a care home he's spent his money covering your costs. If he has no money for care costs and the social find out you gained a capital asset out of him paying for it the office of the public guardian would want the money back and go through the courts to get it. If it was any other 80 year old it wouldn't matter but the fact he is your father makes the difference as next of kin you're not supposed to benefit financially from him like that as it will deprived himself financially when it comes to care costs in the future. And they can go back any number of years in looking at evidence from bank statements for his financial assessment.

Could he sell his rural house and buy half of the flat from you? Held as tenants in common? So he still has a (share of) a capital asset (in terms of if ever he needs to move to a care home). It would perhaps mean that you can pay off your mortgage, so there will be no mortgage payments for you? You would need to check out what all of the implications would be - ie would he have to pay you rent for your half? Would it be considered deprivation of assets? Would it affect you in terms of tax? Are there implications in terms of care costs? Presumably, if he did need to move to a care home, then you could buy him out by remortgaging again? The worst scenario is to keep a semi-rural house that is unoccupied and mouldering away sitting empty.

Are there cheaper properties near you, that would fall within his £200k budget? eg A small flat to purchase, only for occupation by people age 60+? Where we are (SE), these types of properties are much cheaper than standard flats, due to the occupation restrictions..

Fair deal only applies to nursing home and as you say is capped . He can also without depreciation of assets gift individuals up to €3000 per year so in effect paying for management fees plus any money given to your DCs , your siblings , their DCs will reduce any tax liability. If his home needs upgrading to qualify for rental , if it's been vacant for two years , it will qualify for Vacant Homes Grant . So many options to discuss as a family . If father is reluctant to make decisions, phrase it as a way to keep assets in the family and avoid the Government getting it . Worked for us !

I haven't said that the brothers shouldn't do anything? I just said that I dont think they should be paying the fees when he has his own house that could be sold to pay it.

Yes the brothers should be helping with appointments, meals, socially etc but financially no.

As someone else has said, could he possibly sell the house and invest in your flat as tenants in common. That way you and your husband wouldn’t be losing out, and he would still have share of an asset.

The fair deal scheme will disregard the first €36,000 of his savings, so he could keep a small amount for himself from the sale of the house.

Also, just to say my dad went into a HSE nursing home and had excellent care, so I wouldn’t be too worried about public vs. private.
Some of the private ones we viewed didn’t seem that great tbh.

@HornyHornersPinkyWinky good knowledge - thanks. Good to know.

He has v little in savings so the 36k won't be breached. The tenants in common is an idea for sure and one I am looking into.

I had him over for dinner last night and managed to get some alone time with him (rare with the kids in evenings). I said I wanted us to revisit the house in the country and how it's being managed and lived in. He was clear that he can't spend more than 1 night there on his own as he is worried about falling or having a bad night (he has regular night terrors which leave him totally wiped). House is up for insurance renewal and I am pushing for unoccupied house insurance as nobody is there. I mentioned the vacant property grant and maybe renting out the house as "Dad we can't leave it empty". I am simply putting the skids on to get him thinking. I also said that I would like all of us, as a family to talk about it together.

Interestingly, when I was driving him back he asked me "how is it going with the boys (DBs) helping to pay for the apartment?"... Eh, huh? I clarified that we had never asked them to contribute to it, and after this thread helping me clear my head, we will not be asking for any financial input from the DBs. "Oh". Yes, flipping Oh! As I mentioned previously, finances have always been opaque and assumed. I am going to get ahead of this over the next few weeks. I think selling the house is a good plan now. I am not looking to money grab, I don't care about inheritance. I just think it makes sense and is the right thing to do.

Can you also emphasise that an empty unheated house will quickly deteriorate and will be no use to anyone ? My uncle eventually agreed to sell his after 3 years and got nowhere near it's worth as it was in such bad condition.

rather than them contribute to apartment related costs ( you would have them/ get a renter to pay them) could they contribute to cleaner/physio/ food costs? More direct help for their dad?

In your shoes I would have a meeting with your brothers to discuss the situation and possible scenarios for your father’s living situation, and then - jointly - seek legal advice on the best way forward.

@Soonenough thanks, that is exactly what we don't want to happen. Sorry to hear that about your uncle's house.

I am trying to find a time to sit with my brothers over the next fortnight and go through it all. Legal advice may be needed yes @Enrichetta. I would say a tax expert or similar.

I gently flagged with one of my DBs just this morning that we need to have a bit of a think together on scenarios, he immediately jumped to "let me contribute AlwaysFixing, its too much for you and DH", I stopped him immediately. I said no, we need to have a well considered approach to this and not jump to all of us throwing money at DF or me/DH as it will lead to resentment/family feud in future. I saw that play out in my DM family and it was horrible. He tends to get very stressed about DF situ, he has a lot on his plate, no more than me though so I want to slow him down and take time to think out loud with me and other DB. He is onboard with discussing it though. Other DB calling me later to chat through similar, he is very level headed which is great.

DH v supportive and calm through all of this, he seems quite grateful that I am stepping up. He made comment last night that we needed the time of "trial" as DF so traumatised since DM passed. It's a better time to approach this now.