Anyone share experience of intransigent parents who don't want to plan...

[Thingything]

Wondering if anyone has experienced intransigent / stubborn elderly parents and been able to navigate the process gracefully?

My parents are getting very elderly and have a host of health problems. My mother needs round the clock care and can't care for herself at all, and she has mental capacity challenges (so as not to drip feed - brain injury, she can talk and is mostly herself but has memory issues and can't do much physically) so can't manage money or anything. She told me recently she doesn't have any idea even who their energy supplier is or what their bank details are. She's never done power of attorney stuff as my dad has always managed all their money and stuff anyway, she's never worked.

My dad is lovely but head totally in the sand. He accepts they are getting old. He accepts they have a lot of mobility issues. We had the 'big talk' on whether they'd consider downsizing from their big house into something more manageable and closer to me so I could help them (no. no. no. was the answer). But now I'm trying to persuade them to at least do the very basics such as lasting power of attorney so I (or a sibling) can look after my mum if my dad is incapacitated or dead and to write down at least the basics like which bank they use. Getting absolutely nowhere.

I think it's all triggering for them to engage in this stuff as reminds them of their own parents' demise but I'm so frustrated as I know it's a case of 'when' not 'if' something like a fall happens and if that happens with nothing planned or documented then it will be an absolute nightmare.

Both my parents did a POA for finance when they were in their 70s. We only recently did the health one now they are in their late 80s. We just said it was needed and we’d sort it, discussed the options with them and told them where to sign. However, they still live in a house that is completely unsuitable for them - too big and lots of stairs, no downstairs loo. They did talk about downsizing 20 years ago and looked at a few places, but nothing was right. Now it’s too late and they won’t consider it. I live 250 miles away, so it’s not easy to help out.

And yes @lljkk before DPs declined very badly they were always about not being a burden and throw us in a home when we get too much trouble. Except now they are a horrendous burden and seemingly unable to comprehend this and very explicitly do not want to go into a home, so unfortunately forward planning often doesn’t count for much when it comes down to it. All I can do is refuse to do more than I feel I can and point out the gaps to them and to their social worker until inevitable crisis happens.

Will go back and read after I’ve posted this, based on your thread title.

Do not step in unless it is an end of life crisis.

They have chosen the life they want to lead, let them.

I organised all the LPoA paperwork for my parents as they talked endlessly about doing them for years with the added ‘we’ll trust you to do the right thing’ but no sign of any action of doing the admin.

Whilst the Finance has been useful the H and W is not as our mother is deemed to have capacity so is free to make absolutely terrible life choices leaving us to pick up the burden. I have stepped right back and am tooled up knowing that it is better to feel guilt than resentment etc but the toll she has had on me has been awful.
She knows I am due to go overseas to visit on of my adult children and hey presto she dropped into recent conversation that ‘could you postpone the trip as I have been thinking WE could start to sort out the garage’. Said garage is packed full of stuff my father and her have hoarded for decades. When I said it wasn’t convenient as I have my trip booked she told me how disappointed my father would be knowing I am prioritising a ‘holiday’ over helping her. 🙄

@BlueLegume it’s extraordinary how they behave. I can’t work out whether it’s a brain function thing, or whether they’ve just stopped masking with the semblance of ‘decent human being’, revealing the self centred person beneath. So manipulative.

@PrizedPickledPopcorn I am quite of the mind the ability to be a decent human being is something my own mother has always struggled with. She has never been told ‘no’ and always controlled and manipulated situations to get things her own way. The consequence of that has meant she has no coping skills to draw on as she has never developed them.

I am sure that there is some cognitive decline. So she has no longer got the ‘energy’ to mask as you said. It absolutely is extraordinary. For me she revealed her true self to me when I was very young and she is the same person today.

One of my siblings is sure she is ‘ill’ but they had very little to do with her until about 10 years ago, they are also the golden child and they are also very like her personality wise. Support to all us bad daughters.

Both parents here total head in the sand and will not do anything or even consider things for the future. My dad controls everything and gives mum housekeeping money and she has no idea about their finances. I did try and have a conversation with her about what she would do if he died and was firmly told she would stay in their big rural house and be fine. No understanding of how she would maintain it, pay for it or deal with bills etc that currently she has no idea what they are. I do know where their wills are but dreading it if something happens to my dad and their is absolutely no talking to him about it.

@BlueLegume that sounds very much like my family dynamics. I'm now NC with one of my siblings because his personality is so much like mum and he sent really abusive messages over Christmas trying to manipulate me.

@countrygirl99 so sorry to hear this. One of my siblings will send awful messages and it is impossible to have a civil conversation without him shouting at me that I am ‘unbelievable’. I have a clear conscience so whilst it is upsetting he has no grounds for the abuse. I have come to the conclusion he’s bobbed along merrily in life with regards to our parents and when the inevitable house of cards fell he was blindsided. I also suspect he smugly thought that as my DSis and I retired some time ago that we would just gradually take on the care and responsibilities. I am also aware he has lied to our mother’s GP and to Social Services. I have the emails from SS outlining what he has told them and it is a work of fiction.

As ever having stepped back I am trying to get my own health back to a good place so when the inevitable crisis comes I can manage. I get quite frustrated at the ‘oh aren’t you lucky to have them’ brigade. No actually my parents have been nothing but a constant source of worry all my life due to their own toxic relationship.

Watching with interest because I cannot get my mother (85) to agree to LPA s she says it us ‘too expensive ’ (I’ve said I’ll pay’).
Meanwhile I’ ve set up LPA and Will for my sons have everything on a spreadsheet and all finances in s dedicated email address that they have the password to, and my IFA will help them through the practicalities. I’ ve also set up an instance policy to pay inheritance tax.
My friend’s 96 yo mother who is blind and deaf and on multiple medications refuses to carers into her home (or move in with a a daughter) so her three daughters do all the care on a rota which takes an enormous toll on them (she is rude/insulting/unkind). Refuses to go into a care home or have carers in as ‘it will cost money’.

@LupaMoonhowl we have done similar in terms of sorting our own LPoAs and wills out with our adult children knowing exactly where the files are so they can have access to everything. We have also sat down with them and explained we have advanced decisions outlining what we want to happen. It may not all work perfectly in the moment BUT we have had an honest conversation with them and also have reconciled with each other that if nursing facility care is required then we accept it as being a sensible option.

Regarding the refusal to have carers in we have a similar situation. My mother has used every excuse under the sun including the incredibly manipulative’I don’t want strangers in my house they’ll steal from me’. My interpretation of this is ‘I want you to do it’. Well for a time I did but all she wanted was a platform to critique my cooking skills, cleaning standards and insult me by saying ‘well you are out of breath because of all the weight you have put on’.

Stepping right back was difficult as I like to think I am a decent person. But she broke me and even when she knew this she kept moving the goal posts of expectations. Some people are just not very nice.

Perhaps (re P of A) you could try telling them that if for any reason (e.g. stroke, dementia) they were unable to make their wishes known, or to possess full mental capacity) then in the absence of Powers of Attorney they would be subject to the tender mercies of Social Services - you would not be able to make decisions on their behalf.

Not to mention that financially, if they were to lose capacity, trying to deal with finances is a nightmare if a P of A is not in place. The office of Public Guardian then needs to be involved, which takes ages to initiate and is comparatively very expensive!

I don’t know about anybody else, but my (long gone) DM had a horror of any involvement of SS - she still saw them as ever needed only by the poor and/or feckless!

My parents are deeply frustrating and I have LPA. They have never planned for their old age, they don't now, they just expect everyone to facilitate what ever it is they want to do. So for instance, cleaning their house is too much, but they won't entertain a cleaner, expect family to just "run the hoover round" I can't begin to explain how infuriating they are. I'm venting 😕

I’ve had to take the attitude that they didn’t want to do it and that was a conscious choice which I will respect, I have refused to give regular care. Ultimately my parents made an active choice about their own lives.