Expected to give up any free time for elderly GP

[CrazyGoatLady]

My elderly Nanna (95) is becoming increasingly frail, and hospital appointments more frequent. She is in her own home and has home help come in every morning. She was managing, but her recent admission (heart failure) seems to have brought a real increase in frailty. No cognitive issues, just physical decline. No family nearby, she was adamant she didn't want to move when she had the opportunity and strength to. I love my Nanna dearly, but have never met anybody to rival her for stubbornness! I don't think she'd cope with a move now. My dad fills in most support gaps, but he's in his 70s and not in great health himself. His wife is younger and still working.

I've been down there the past 4 weekends. We all went for a family occasion, then she was admitted to hospital for 2 weeks, so I went down to ensure she had visits while Dad went home for a break, and because of my job (healthcare) I'm usually the best person to liaise with medical and care staff. I went this weekend just gone because she's been settling back at home post discharge. However, Dad has now unilaterally decided this is the new normal, and said to me this morning "so when will you be coming on Friday so I can go home and see [wife] and have a break?"

This isn't going to be sustainable for me. I'm working full time, we have a smallholding, yes DC are older now (16 and nearly 19) but is it reasonable for my dad to expect that I will effectively never have any breaks myself? I've been coming home just to work and try to keep on top of the house and then collapsing in bed at 9pm. But my dad does not seem to understand this. He thinks I should want to be there every weekend and it's "just what family have to do". I want to discuss getting more paid care in, but Dad says no, she doesn't want that, and they can't support her like family can.

I get wanting the best for your elderly parent, I really do. But she didn't move when she had the chance to, and the consequence of that is, she can't have family there every day. There have to be other options.

Help me try and get this across to my dad, please, if you've been on this rodeo and have any advice!

That’s a lot. My Nanna who recently passed away ended up in a care home at that age as it just was not sustainable for her to be cared for at home any more. I know that’s a tough decision to make but perhaps these are the conversations you should start.

just remember it’s ok to say “no” if expectations are too much.

Your nanna is your dad’s mother!! Not yours! He needs reminding of this and that you can come and have social visits occasionally as before - not the every weekend but before whenever you used to whether it was every few weeks or every few months! - and that your dad needs to get social services involved to get her care in. If she can afford it and it’s just that he doesn’t want to spend her money - or his as he probably sees it now - then tough!!! That’s what it’s there for! You need to put your foot down now before you pretty much end up living with nanna

Oh my,

You need to implement firm boundaries, she is his mum, not yours. Your time will come for caring for your own parents, don't be forced into caring for your grandparents too!

If your dad refuses to allow carers into the home, then he can care for his nan all by himself.

Your dad is just trying to protect his inheritance.

@Nearly50omg she pays for care. It was a battle to get her to get in the care she has. Stubbornness, "I'm fine, don't fuss" etc. Says she doesn't want us to be there fussing around her, but won't admit she can't manage.

Thankfully, my own mother has done a lot of future proofing - she lives fairly close anyway but has now moved to a bungalow, has money set aside for later care needs, done her will, POA and advance directives, and has been very clear she does not expect me to do everything.

@EsmeWeatherwaxHatpin - I don't think we are at care home stage yet, but it's clear to me she will need more support moving forward and that family staying 24/7 can't be it. If my dad wants to do that to the detriment of his own health and marriage, I have to let him I guess, but not enable it either.

That’s fair. But you’re right that this is for hour dad to solve.

I assume you want to do something for your Gran. So offer what you can do but just be firm that you can’t do more than that. These times in life are really hard. There isn’t a one right answer, other than not breaking yourself.

You're not being unreasonable. What help does she actually need. My FIL lived independently with quite severe heart failure until 4 weeks before he died. We went up every few weeks for a day. He had carers first thing and didn't want any more as he could get around and in and out of bed. They did his medication and helped him shower. He used Wiltshire farm foods for meals though did cook himself a fry up one Sunday morning before going into hospital!
You can't be there every weekend. Maybe agree once a month at the most. This stage could go on for months.
We had cameras in the house which meant we could check in in fil to see he was ok.
Don't feel guilty

Suggest to your df you will send him a proposed schedule.. Say it will include him doing some work on your small holding that isn't going to get done because you are with dgm. When he likely says he can't do it then ask him where the hours needed for you to do it are coming from...

The only way through this is to continually assert your boundary. Tell him you're not coming because you're having your break. He doesn't necessarily need to understand why you're not prepared to do it, only that you aren't.

Of course this is unsustainable, even if you wanted to visit every weekend, you have commitments to your own family. Just because your kids are 19 & 16 doesn't mean they don't need their parents around. And of course you need down time for yourself.

You will need to learn to play hard ball here Crazygoatlady and it may not come naturally.

First decide how much time you can offer, eg one weekend every 6 weeks for Saturday from 10am to Sunday 4pm, something like that and you tell your dad this is what you can do. Tell, don't ask. Also tell your Gran. Then he needs to request a carer assessment for himself and once that's done he takes anything they are offered. Anything and everything on offer. It might not be what he wants, but getting into the system is the first step. Gran needs someone going into the house 4 times a day seven days a week for care and she needs a cleaner once a week who will also do the washing. Your dad can visit as often as he likes but the pressure will be off him to a large extent.

If Gran has to pay, then Gran has to pay or go without- see this is the hardball bit. And when the crisis hits, which it will, let it happen, don't go running down to her to save the day. As you have found, saving the day just gets you in the frame for everything.

I know this sounds cruel to some people, however you have to defend your time. You already have 4 'jobs' - wife, mother, your paying job and being you. For short stints you can take on a 5th, but it's short tterm, very short term, otherwise the other 4 'jobs' start to suffer, and your post suggests you are now at that point. Your Granny is stubborn - that's good to know as you'll have a few of her genes which also hopefully include the one for stubbornness.

So first step decide how much time you can offer and tell everyone your decision. Oh and another tip - make it a longish gap between visits, say once every 6 weeks. If you say every other weekend, the ramp up is every week. If the gap is every 6 weeks than your ramp up is more gradual

You need to be firm with you dad now or you are setting yourself up for years, if not decades of these expectations, as he will expect the same level of support from you and with the same level of penny pinching from him as he ages.

This is really good advice, especially the warning about the degrees of ramping up.

It’s very difficult, but there often comes a time when a person’s needs have to trump their ‘wants’. You have to tell your dad that you’re sorry, but you just cannot do what he asks - if he can’t manage what’s needed, your nanna will have to accept outside care, whether she likes it or not.

Unfortunately, old people can become exceedingly selfish and self-centred, in expecting family with jobs/children/other responsibilities, to be run ragged trying to care for them.

That's a good point about having 4 jobs, not just one! And about the ramp up. Previously I went every 4-6 weeks and my aim was to get back to that, as Musicaltheatremum said, this stage can last months, even years. She's not even been diagnosed end stage yet.

GP has been out to see her this morning as she is complaining of chest pain but we are unsure if it's reflux or something else. I'll no doubt get an update from my dad later on, so will need to try to speak to him about the expectation and my inability to fulfil it, and what else we can support nanna to put in place.

Set your boundaries op. I do saturdays. Then she wanted sundays. Have my own home too. My sisters good to be fair. We cant do it all though. You can get run down by it all

I honestly think this is coming more from my Dad, and maybe anxiety/guilt on his part, thinking this is how things "should" be done. A very useful insight, as you say, into the expectations he is likely to have of me as an eldest daughter!

It's very difficult to get Nanna to say what she actually needs. She'd still be saying she was fine if she was lying on the floor with a broken leg! I suspect probably generational/gender based conditioning. But it's hard when someone won't ask for anything because they don't want to be a burden or put you out, but by not engaging with conversations about their needs, they end up...becoming a burden and putting you out!

Ah the old trope of the elderly person not wanting to be a burden, but actually becoming a huge one to their nearest and dearest by trying to struggle on and minimising how much family help they are actually getting.

I am at the tricky stage with my DPs. They live an hour away.DS19 goes up to take his DGF out for lunch say once a month, but I am very clear to him and to DH that DS has no caring responsibilities, he is there purely in a social capacity only.
However it’s harder for your DPs as they are older and must be finding this a strain. You are absolutely right that you shouldn’t have to go every weekend. If your DF can’t give her the level of care she needs ( which is different from wants) then either paid care needs to be arranged or social services need to get involved if there isn’t sufficient private funding.

Your dad wouldn’t expect this is of a son I’ll bet.

Good luck OP

Agree with all of this. Had the same with late parents although my Dad was in a home. Mum was a different matter. She got incredibly worried about everything. I ran her household and still it wasnt enough. Silly things became big things. She drove me bonkers. She just couldnt help herself.

If you're not going to do a specific day, I think you just have to "get it across" by saying you're not going to do it, and then not doing it. The key is convincing yourself that you don't need his approval or permission. Something like "I'm not free this Friday Dad, but I'll be there next Friday", or "From now on, I'll be able to visit every third weekend" or whatever you've decided on.

You seemed to imply you have at least one sibling - where are they in all this? Time to start expecting them to do their share - whether dad does or not.

That's basically what I've done. I've said I won't be going down this weekend, we have plans, and I don't have the capacity to be part of a 24/7 care rota. If we think she needs more care, it's time to think about stepping things up with the care agency, I've left that with him to mull over. He is not happy, of course. Whatever plans we have as a family aren't as important as an elderly, ill person's needs, apparently. But we don't even know if it's what she needs or wants to have family staying there all the time. Dad's just decided that's what should happen.

Yes, I've two younger half siblings (same dad). However, DSis lives abroad and DBro is autistic with significant support needs of his own, so they can't do much to help.

No way you need to think about your own health.

It's up to your dad what he does about his mother, but she certainly is not your responsibility.

Don't do any more than you are able to. Don't push yourself.

Such a familiar tale - you’re the dependable one, the one who stayed closer to home - so everything lands on you. It’s completely unfair. Is your dad on the phone to your step sister complaining that she has moved too far away to come back and help every week? I doubt it.

Also worth pointing out that your DF said he wants you to go there to give him a break. It's about him, at least as much as it's about DGM. He thinks his desire for respite overrides yours.

@DontCallMeLenYouLittleBollix like many retired parents, he seems to have forgotten very quickly what full time work was like! It doesn't occur to him that others do things they may need a break from.

Totally unsustainable and very like my own mother in law. She is 84. A force to be reckoned with.

farming family, so still wants to be doing that. Which is a nightmare in itself.

the only thing I could offer as an alternative is you speak of much distance.

taking turns to go down.

could you bring her to you, on basis kids are older, for help or whatever reason you can think of.

eg, when mother in law is here helping me with chickens and counting sheep and checking kids (mine are little) homework it’s so much less stressful than me going to her to clean. And help.

from there you get a break and if she isn’t coping you can then look at more practical solutions closer to you?