Social services want to move relative out of residential care home into independent living

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Any help advice appreciated. In a nutshell relative wasn't looking after themselves. Not eating, sleeping, not getting up and dressed, drinking alcohol in abundance, not taking there medication, house untidy and dirty, generally depressed, disoriented and not aware of what time or where they were. Family decision due to age early 80's put them in residential care as they had the money to self fund (I think it was the fourth call to the fire brigade and the found wandering at night by neighbors that was the deciding factor). Now the money is at a level where funding can be taken over by the Government. Social service apprentice has been to visit twice and has advised that they can be moved back to independent living, because their care plan with the residential home show they are independent. They are as they are being looked after and they can wash and dress themselves. The family don't agree with the social services opinion.This has been referred to the housing department who have advised they have no independent living vacancies. After their visit and seeing how frail they are and listening to the history and the family concerns they are quite understanding and agree with the family. Does anybody know where we stand? There are two family members that are POA but ultimately who has the over riding authority as the care services are telling us it's the Social worker apprentice. Thank you for any advice or knowledge.

The people who know your relative best in terms of current day to day needs are the care home staff. They are also very experienced in the needs of elderly people and assessment of capacity. If the care plan she has shows limited need for care and they say that they believe she has capacity then the Social Worker would not need to spend much time on an assessment before forming a conclusion. Many people in their 80s do live independently - I think only 1 in 5 elderly people ever need a care home.

The pre care home lifestyle of neglecting themselves, drinking excessively etc was a problem but perhaps after what has effectively been 2.5 years in rehab and given they presumably now have less mobility for trips to the office licence they will be more stable than they were previously and won’t take up drinking again. And if they do, then, as they have capacity that is their decision to make.

Thank you all for your comments appreciated. I started contacting SS Thursday still no contact from them. HT have been great. I need to forward the assessment from SS to HT that I am form desktop assessment. I have requested a meeting with all parties. I kind of resigned myself to relative needing to be moved into Independent Living, but this has no wardens.Also due to where they will be situated it is the other end of the district so visitations from aging family members will be minimal. From what I can gather there will be support going in 4 times a day which once you do a cost analysis of the other costs that will be incurred will far out way the cost of keeping them where they are. The alcohol is still given in the care home but obviously it is monitored and limited. Do I think they will cope absolutely not, but hey ho I will have to contact SS tomorrow if they have not made contact. What is annoying is the non contact what is that all about. If you read about an aging person sat on the side of a village road with all their worldly goods in a suitcase that could well be them.

I think all you can do is ensure they take the previous high risk behaviour into account.
If it were my case I would be doing a clear risk assessment incorporating previous incidents and what is going to be in place this time to minimise the risk.

Ultimately though the person should have the opportunity to try living independently again if that's what they want, and they aren't needing much support from the nursing home.

Sometimes you just don't know until you try, but I would want to ask if they could return to the same place if things don't work out.

Technology could help with monitoring too.

And do they actually have somewhere to go? Sometimes moving into independent accommodation from a care home is simply not an option as the person gave up a tenancy or sold a home and no longer have a home to return to.

If your relative doesn't have capacity to understand and sign a tenancy then I think that rules it out personally.

If there now no offer of a flat from housing, they will not stop funding/evict the person from the care home with nowhere to go.

Social services have a duty of care and this would put the person at risk. Imagine the press too!

Hold firm, but I am sure they will not stick to their date of 30/9 without alternative accom.

They would find it hard to argue the person had full capacity and understanding of the situation and was opting to put themselves on the street.

And especially If you've requested meetings to try to resolve it and they've not been responsibe to you.

To all that are still following, I have not had chance to get back on chat due to home assessment and a family friend funeral. So latest update I have asked for another SS assessment. A mental health assessment and a full meeting with all relevant entities. CH manager was great in the meeting. Believes that relative is not suitable for independent living. HT have availability but CH manager did not think it was suitable. @FirstdatesFred thank you for your comments they are appreciated and helpful. Monitoring I think if there is an incident the monitors call me which what use am I, 40mins away and to be fair with a young family I don't want that responsibility. Also where they are talking about is in a town not a rural setting and not a vet salubrious part of town with drug issues etc. We all kind of agreed in the meeting (SS weren't in attendance) that is there really a need to move back into Independent Living when they are safe, want to be there and are scared of having to move back into independent living. The costs for tax payers when I mapped it out on a spreadsheet are not beneficial at all to move the relative back into independent living but then I am fully aware of how the budgets work which I really wished I didn't know 🤣. The CH manager agreed as it is a lot cheaper in keeping the relative in the home than to move back to IL. I have spoken to a close friend and they have advised that the relative due to the memory loss in the meeting I advised to them, does show early signs of onset dementia. Can remember a birthday but not where they have lived before, or for how long for, or addresses, but can remember a random event 40 years ago. Can't remember my brother, but can remember me, can't remember my childs name or my husbands. Out of curiosity @FirstdatesFred who makes the over riding decision is it SS. I am aware that they all do not work full time in our SS so it is 2 days 1 week 2 different days the next, which I am living with as it shows a complete breakdown down in availability and continuity in our district which will all delay the outcome.

In terms of who makes the final decision:

• social services, if they are being asked to fund. They have a duty to fund care but not in any setting.

• but they need the persons consent, if they have capacity.
• or the relatives consent if they have power of attorney.
• or if no capacity, and no power of attorney, social services would make a "best interests" decision.

In theory, they could say they will only fund independent living, not the care home, and if the person refuses they're on their own. But can't do this if there's no tenancy available!
And in reality, they will not put a vulnerable person on the street especially if there is any doubt about their capacity.

Notice dates always come and go.

Who makes the final decision? He who pays the piper I’m afraid ie social care. It’s a very great shame they were not at the meeting.

I’m afraid the CH manager will not hold any sway because they have a conflict of interest in that of course they want to keep their care home full with a less demanding resident. Are they willing to put their money where their mouth is and reduce the fees?

I would be surprised if paying for a care home is cheaper than 4x a day calls (and would they need 4x a day if they are pretty independent and can mobilise and toilet). The council will only take into account the direct costs to them of care and not anything else.

Re: memory loss the first step is to ask the GP to assess for dementia and they can refer on to memory services although there will be a wait. At least that way you would have a documented opinion from a Dr and that is a reason to call into question the persons capacity. Although in fact in this case their wishes and feelings are that they don’t want to move. I think it’s quite hard for social care to justify a decision to force them out (the more usual case is that the person themselves wants to leave)

In many areas there is a halfway step between a care home and independent living of ‘extra sheltered’ with an onsite warden and care team. Is there anything like that which might be suitable?

Some questions - what is an Apprentice Social Worker? Do you mean unqualified? There are many in Adult services as Childrens services get more funding. The decision will not rest with 1 worker of any description. Secondly please stop referring to a Warden in supportive living. There are many kinds of supportive living and by no means all as good as each other.I advise all people (including the person concerned) to look at the CQC reviews, available online. Also if the client has capacity it is their decision where to live. No one in supportive accomodation or residential care, can stop someone drinking alcohol and many residents get others to buy it for them. Reading the original post, I felt that the views of the person concerned were not being considered and that is a responsibility of any social worker of any status to ensure their choices are respected.

Did they say there was no representation from Social Services?

Keep pushing for cognitive assessment. She needs a fully documented care plan by a mental health professional.