Yet another "the oldie has capacity" discussion

[BeaTwix]

The oldie is back in hospital. Not been answering phone or messaging family. I initially tried to ring the ward every day but it's hard as you can never speak to the right nurse and they never phone you back. I asked my siblings to help out but they felt it was unnecessary.

Ergo as I've been busy with work this week (I did a couple of on calls and a day in our basement operating theatre with crap phone reception) it dropped off and I hadn't spoken to the nursing team for about 5 days.

Finally got hold of her nurse to be told the oldies discharge planning is well underway. When I queried why no-one had contacted me I was told there was no need as they had spoken to the oldie.

I am SO frustrated I've raised TWO complaints with the same trust about her last two discharges when they did this and I spoke to the nurses on admission about how important it was to keep me in the loop.

Oldie has a good social facade but there is very little cognitive action behind the scenes. I'm doing all finances, grocery shopping etc. these days. We are still waiting for a cognitive assessment because there is a two year waiting list that oldie only joined 6 months after I raised concerns as the GP dismissed me initially.

I've also messaged the oldie daily to remind them to get the staff to loop me into the discussions so I can sort groceries etc and make sure their discharge medication isn't going to be a shit show again. Nurse looking after her didn't even know I exist - this is a recurrent sore point when they ask her about her family she always tells them she has none as her parents and husband are dead. Those of us who are living and involved albeit more distant relations apparently aren't even worth mentioning!

Hilariously 2 hours after my rather pointed conversation I got another call from the nursing team - they had just worked out the Oldie has no shoes in hospital as she had forgotten to take any with her. I was coincidentally in town when she went into hospital and went to her house to collect other stuff I knew she was missing (thanks AirTags) before visiting. I asked her if she needed anything. No mention of missing shoes.

So I only discovered that she had no shoes after I got to the hospital. Sadly this was only 8 hours before I got a train 400 miles home and I had no time to go rectify the situation. I didn't rush to sort this out as I was kind of hoping she could just go home in slippers. But apparently the physio team needed her in shoes.

So I persuaded one of my friend's very helpful teenagers to go to her house and collect the shoes. When I asked the oldie if she needed anything else brought in to the hospital from her house she then gave me a full on shopping list including two ready meals and a punnet of strawberries! It transpired she was disorientated to time and place ( thought it was Saturday and she was at home hence needing groceries). Teenager then told me she didn't know who he was. He has been her tech support for the past year and has seen her at least once a month, sometimes more. He is a lovely lad and always stops to have tea, cake and a chat.

Honestly, how do the staff keep missing how confused she is??

She should rewrite her post using less dehumanising language, then.

Yes, me too, it comes across as disrespectful and dismissive.

It really isn't necessarily and it sounds like op is doing a lot to help.

It really isn't necessarily and it sounds like op is doing a lot to help.

My mother had a stroke and was admitted to hospital alas she ended up virtually immobile and doubly incontinent. I was shocked on visiting one evening to be told that they planned to discharge her in two days as she was stable and had assured them that with carers visiting that she could manage as her daughter(me) and her son were both living locally and would be able to do lots for her. What she failed to expand on was that I worked full time, had 3 small children at the time as well as a husband whom worked long hours and shifts and her son worked away from Monday to Thursday!
As she had capacity they thought this was an appropriate plan and did not see the need to discuss with family.
They refused to take into account my input on this and therefore the discharge occurred on a Tuesday. Sadly three days later on Friday she attempted to get out of bed during the night resulting in a broken hip and readmission to hospital where she passed away a week later from sepsis.
To this day I think this could have been avoided if my views had been taken into consideration and she had been discharged to a care home rather than alone in her own home.

Me neither. I would never refer to my parents as that.

Why are you policing the OP’s language? Don’t like it? Scroll on past.

Shame you’re blind to the actual situation she’s describing. Luckily this relative of the OP has the OP’s care and attention.

Gosh, yes - because the whole post really sounds like the OP couldn’t give a shit about her relative, doesn’t it?

So OP is doing a lot to help a relative that isn't even a direct parent and people are piling on her about the term 'oldie' which is VERY much a term of endearment in some families? I know multiple people who are referred to as, and refer to themselves as 'oldie' or variations of and would be very confused that other people would be offended given that... they are... old. If your family member would feel horrible dehumanised by it, then don't call them that, but don't assume every family is the same.

Not to totally derail a thread asking for advice about the staff missing her confusion based on one word that is clearly an endearing nickname for a relative who the OP clearly cares hugely about and is clearly doing a huge amount for, on her own, from 400 miles away... <hard stare>

I think the staff are missing her confusion because they are rushed off their feet, you say yourself that superficially she seems like she's got it together, and if you've only got 5 minutes with someone that you don't know from adam it can be easy to think oh, this person knows what's what. Add to that pressure on beds and discharge becomes the end-goal, regardless of the true situation.

I'm so sorry, it's really shit. I wish it was different but honestly unless the family member is there all the time in person I don't know how else to change the realities. Even if the staff doubled, they still would change shifts etc and a new person would come who would again be taken in by the superficial appearance of coping and capacity

Agree. Just make up a name.

PS DH's aunt calls herself the Moldie!! And says she is growing mold and lichen out in the countryside as she ages "like a fine wine".

I have wondered over the years if she is a secret MN regular on the Moldies threads (are those still going?)

My DD refers to me as "the little old lady". I'm 58. It's a joke and nothing at all disrespectful.

I’m another who thinks it’s a term of endearment. We all use it for the grandparents and no offence is taken.

You sound delightful 🙄

This

@BeaTwixits so tough, relentless and exhausting, I have this with my very elderly DM. You can only do so much, and you have to take care of yourself too.

Like, say, "the oldie"?

I doubt anyone would be complaining if the OP had used "my elderly relative" throughout her post, and yet that's equally impersonal and age focused.

Have you heard of The Oldie magazine?

@HornyHornersPinger I’m an overworked carer who came onto a supportive forum (elderly parents) for help but got a pile on about my use of language.

it you haven’t dealt with the chaos of an old person and assuming PoA you won’t have a clue. My situation is much worse as there is a huge financial mess to unpick - 27 financial institutions and a neglected hoarded house.

i travel 400 miles once a month to support. I’ve got her benefits sorted out and my major achievement is I’ve got the house through a fire risk assessment and OT assessment for safety recently. 12 months ago it would have failed making remaining at home very difficult.

But yes, because I chose to use a family term of endearment partially hiding our relationship I’m a terrible person.

And I’m doing all this for someone who repeatedly tells hospital care staff that “she has no family” which I find hugely hurtful.

I personally believe actions speak louder than words. But you can choose differently.

Foolish of her to use this nickname then. She's not posting on her private social media.

No need to be rude, who are you in relation to this person then, do you have power of attorney, are you listed as the main contact in her notes.

I'm so sorry that you've had a pile on when you're asking for help. It all sounds utterly infuriating.

Is there any way of getting her formally assessed for lack of capacity so a PoA can kick in? I'm not sure how it works on medical stuff.

My Mum died nearly 9 years ago. Had numerous hospital stays - significant cognitive decline but could briefly present extremely plausibly and wasn't that old. Absolute shit show in terms of being assessed for capacity and keeping me informed. Unsafe discharges all the time.
In the end, I stopped being surprised by the utter lack of communication within hospitals let alone with outside agencies.
They won't ring you and once there's no more the hospital can do for her medically they need her to go. What happens next isn't really their concern - so they follow procedure (which is what they are there for).
I have sympathy for you but no advice that would make it better - the best you can do is to keep ringing/visiting to advocate when you can.

The issue is though that you as a family need to sort out more appropriate living arrangements, it’s not for hospital discharge teams to do this. Where a person has nobody of course they do help but their job is to liaise with the council social services not deprive a person who seems fairly together of their liberty (forgetting shoes or being a bit confused in hospital doesn’t mean she needs to go into a home against her will). It’s not easy, been there but families need to take responsibility for finding more suitable housing