How to explain to MIL she’s in a care home

[Meandacat]

MIL is in her 80s. BIL lives a half hour drive from her home, DH and I live a hour away but DH doesn’t drive. After a series of events late last year, she was taken into hospital where she stayed for several months before being transferred on the recommendation of social work into care. She has no formal diagnosis… there is no dementia or Alzheimer’s. She does have a history of depression and I have long suspected bipolar but they haven’t diagnosed that either. But at home she refused help from carers but was unable to care for herself, was making silly mistakes (like switching the fridge off) and had started having delusions and paranoia which put her safety at risk.

Since being in the care home she has thrived. She still thinks she’s in a hospital situation and is therefore accepting of the care. She enjoys the activities and is very well, to the extent one might question why she’s even there! She still talks about going home but has refused point blank to accept having carers there. We want her to stay in the care home as it seems to suit her very well and is such a weight off our minds. However, BIL is now talking about selling her home as it’s costing money to keep it. We agree, but don’t want to do this behind MIL’s back.

How can we gently explain to MIL where she is and that it’s not temporary? She is a very stubborn lady and, like many her generation, has a “you’re not putting me in a care home” mentality. We’d let her just coast but selling her home without her knowing feels like a betrayal.

If you're confident you're acting in her best interests, just do it and keep quiet

The level of ignorance in this area never fails to shock me.

You cannot just sell someone's house without their permission. If you could, then none of us would be secure in our own homes.

Nothing can be done with the house without her say so, unless she's been assessed as not having capacity in this area.

My mum had capacity until the end. My brother and I had POA to conduct her financial affairs, but only with her permission (she was paralysed so unable to carry out her own banking, bill paying, shopping etc). So we managed her bank account, paid for things and filled in forms for her. What we did not do was make decisions for her. She was very erratic and poor at making decisions, but that did not give us the right to take over her life, any more than we'd have been able to if she wasn't paralysed. And that's how it should be.

OP needs to get her assessed first of all.

So are you saying that people with less money should have a poorer quality of care ??

My Gran was fiercely independent until her early 90s. After a stay in hospital and undiagnosed dementia she was moved to a care home. She'd have fought tooth and nail if she'd realised it. She thought it was a hotel and we went with that.

She was happy being looked after in a hotel and thrived on the activities. She regularly commented about going home but we were non committal and it would be forgotten about.

If she's happy in a private hospital let her be. There's nothing to be gained by telling her the truth

My mum was just the same when she went into a care home after a long hospital stay, although she did have dementia and so was very confused. I told her that she was in a convalescent home, rather than hospital, which she seemed very happy to accept. I think this might have been because she had really good memories of going to a convalescent home in the 1970s after her hysterectomy. Whenever she said that she wanted to go home, I just reminded her that she had been quite ill in hospital and needed to convalesce for a bit longer.

Having experience of this I think what’s key is to get rid of the tendency we all have to correct someone when they are talking “rubbish” or to have to tell them everything that’s going on.

so an assertion from someone with dementia that they are waiting for Bert to get home when one knows Bert died ten years ago can provoke a need in us to say Bert’s dead mum. But the right answer may be to nod and smile. It’s hard and awful.

My FIL thinks he is at a hotel, nobody contradicts him. Luckily he thinks it is a nice hotel and is happy there.

He often thinks MIL has gone to the hairdresser and will be back soon. She died three years ago. It's heartbreaking.

I have no idea what logic was involved in your post.

No, I'm saying that if the cost of both people's care is £5,000 then my mum and the council should both have paid £5,000.

My mum should have been paying HER costs, not subsidising the council to help pay another person's costs on addition to get own.

My mum has completely forgotten that her brothers are dead. If they come up in conversation, I just tell her they are 'in nursing homes' (as she is) and she seems surprised and says, 'oh, that's awful, I'll have to go and visit them.' And five seconds later she has forgotten what I've said. And I think this is easier than reminding her again and again that they have died, which would certainly trouble her on some level. Brutal honesty isn't the best policy, I've found.

This. He, or someone you all agree on can only apply for deputyship now, unless she is considered mentally competent enough to sign a LPOA now. If she is able to do that, do it now. Do not let just one of you siblings be Attorney, ensure there is at Least two of you acting severally and jointly

selling house may be a IHT impact. Not sure what rules are, but she would have 325k IHT relief without priority, and 500k with property. Or if she inherited form your dad double that. Theylll be a time limit I think when you claim this relief from when you sold to date she dies. If that’s many years yet, it’s unlikely they’d take into account.

if she is forced to sell her house by council to cover care costs I think that’s allowed on IHT …someone can advise on here I’m sure

many bills can be reduced once someone is in care..council tax, energy and water goes down massively. Depends if there’s money in her estate to pay for it or not. If she has cash then council will have to take that into account when they calculate her payments for care. Without house more of her income/sav8ngs will go straight into care anyway. So, not sure they’ll be lots of savings to sell now. Need to sit down and do Full financial analysis .

but if she is not mental incapacitated, your BIL can whistle in wind. No one but the deed title owner can sell the property. He should be very careful about undue influencing her.

property may be a better investment in longer term than cash sitting in bank. It would be silly to put into investments as you need 5-10 years and you may not have that amount of time in her lifetime

This. Even with LPOA you can’t take control away form someone to make decison on their behalf if they’re not formally recognised as having lost mental capacity. Not unless she’s previously released some powers like this to her attorneys- which would be unusual…

experience with my dad, it takes a fair bit for someone to be declared mentally incapacitated and sometimes not for everything at once

Op, you say no alzeimers or dementia. ..but that she has paranoia and delusions. And behaving erratically.

has anyone talked to family about Lewy body dementia ? That doesn’t really affect memory usually, but manifests in delusions, visual hallucinations (which aren’t sometimes obvious ), depression, and paranoia. Also loss of inhibitions. Characterised with REM sleep disturbances

there are also other dementias - rarer ones….

have they investigated all possibilities?

id also say if they rule that out, and she has other mental health issues that are present and she worsens, then push for full mental assessment and if it ever presents , push for sectioning under mental health act. That sounds extreme, but it ensure they then have a 117 order that stipulates higher level of care and that care costs are covered to a higher level.