Estrangement, theft, and deputyship

[vivvyenn]

This will be long so please bear with me.
I have been estranged from my mother for about 15 months after she was highly abusive towards me and my daughter; that's another story but in short, I did a 100 mile round trip to check on her as she wasn't replying to anyone's calls or texts, and when we got there she flipped, mocked me, mimicked me, called me a liar and ignored my daughter. I'm disabled and don't/can't drive far but I was worried about her so made the trip. She told me she didn't need or want me or my children.
Fast forward to now. My sister came home from Oz to see our mother, but she became sick (mum, not sis) and went into hospital and then into a care home while sis was here. My brother, whom I haven't spoken to for many years - abusive, misogynistic, racist, homophobic, far right... You get the idea - was supposed to be looking after her, but when sis came home it became apparent that she was malnourished and dehydrated.
Brother has control of her finances, although not officially. He got sacked from his job for calling in sick and then posting photos from abroad (thick s**t) but I have suspected for a long time that he has been stealing from mum's account to fund his 5 or 6 overseas holidays a year, plus dozens of weekends away in between.
Today the care home called my sister and said that the initial funding for mums care has run out and none has been put in place, so they're kicking her out. Brother was supposed to be sorting out an interim order to access her funds to pay, but he hasn't, and now she faces being moved into a council care home... The home she is in now is lovely with en suite bathrooms etc and costs almost 2k a week.
When sis contacted brother, he said he no longer wants to deal with it, so she's lost her place in this nice care home.
Sis managed to get hold of mums bank statements when she was here (she's back in Oz now) and brother has mum's credit card... He has been withdrawing £300 every few days, as much as 2k per month, and that money has not gone to mum. What's more, sis took photos of text messages on mum's phone to brother asking for her credit card, which he has refused.
I fully believe he has either emptied her bank account completely so there is no money for her care, or he has realised that her finances will now be examined and he stands to be found out. His girlfriend is only on a low pay grade and he doesn't work so there's no way they can afford these holidays on their own... He's getting married in Morocco in November!
My sister wants me to apply for deputyship so that I can make decisions about her finances. But having looked into it, I don't know if I can. I am in ill health myself, I'm disabled, and am now under cardiology and also waiting for a liver scan as bloods show some kind of liver disease. I'm crippled with arthritis, pernicious anaemia, fibro, and walk on crutches. I survive on a very part time self employed income, and PIP. I'm not even sure if I would be approved due to my own very precarious financial position. It costs upwards of 1k to apply for deputyship with all the fees etc, and while I know I can apply to the courts for exemption, they don't have to accept it and I can't afford to pay all that money; I can barely pay my own rent.
My sister wants me to do it rather than her because she would never get exemption from the fees due to savings, and also because it will be easier as she's on the other side of the world.
But I honestly don't know if I have it in me. I care about my mum but after the abuse she gave both me and my daughter last year, I had made peace with not having her in my life (she's very narcissistic and difficult to get on with at the best of times, and had never been there for me during the worst periods of my life). Stress causes me to flare up massively with pain, I'm being investigated for heart disease, I have high blood pressure and brain lesions which have caused memory loss and brain fog... Stress is very bad for me.
I don't know what to do about my brother; I want to report him to the police but my sister is the one with the evidence. He's got form and did time in borstal for robbery, by the way. It sickens me that he is doing this.
Has anyone here been through the deputyship application? Or dealt with a thieving scumbag sibling? I'm so stressed even thinking about it all.
If you have read this far, thank you.

I’m going through CoP for my parent at the moment and honestly OP I would report your brother to the police and copy everything to adult social care, making it clear you are in no financial position or health position to act as deputy for your mum but that you don’t want to see her ripped off.

The CoP process is long and convoluted and even when everyone is on board and in agreement, it’s often hard to find people who will fill in the form that confirms lack of capacity (COP3). It would be better if you started off the process from the point of view that you are alerting services to the fact she’s being financially abused.

Maybe also Age UK or someone might have some advice on how to proceed?

You’re not a bad person for not being able to do this: you are being realistic and nicer to your mum than she deserves but you’re a good person for it.

But just to say- it’s likely if your brother has spent the money, he won’t pay it back even if ordered to, if he doesn’t have the funds. So she may be in the council care home anyway. If she is reasonably happy and well looked after it would be better for her to stay there than move about when she has dementia which can be hugely destabilising.

No, there's no estate and she lives in a council house. There's no huge amount of money to be dealt with, either. I've been kept out of a lot of it which why it came as such a shock to be told I need to apply for deputyship...I didn't even know she was going into a home until my sister and get friends had driven around a few of them and chosen one for her. My sister knew I was free on the day she did that so she could have asked me and we could have done it together, but she didn't even mention that it was on the cards.
The social worker told my sister that someone in the family has to do it, or at least that's what my sister told me. I'm getting this information third hand which is exhausting as I'm trying to figure this out without all the information x

I know the money is long gone, but I hate the thought that it will go unpunished. Sadly she's not happy in the nice care home so will be even less so in a council one. She's very combative with the staff, won't participate in any of the activities and won't leave her room to eat in the dining room. This home is £2000 per week, has a bar and all sorts of things, and every room is en suite, so moving into a council run home will make her even more miserable. She can be very nasty and toxic and has just got worse with age.

I'm sorry you're going through it, it's a shockingly long process isn't it? I've just come back from having dinner with my son and talked to him about it. I said I'm happy to help from a distance, I'll take calls from the home, I'll deal with doctors etc if necessary, but I just can't put myself in that position. The last time I saw my mum, and the abuse she gave me and my daughter, almost broke me. She insulted me, called me fat, said I was lying about how much pain I'm in, mimicked me as I walk with crutches and she mimicked limping around, put on a baby voice and said 'ooh I'm in so much pain' as though it was me talking, told me I wasn't wanted and that she didn't need me or my children as she had her other children and grandchildren (meaning my brother and his kids) to look after her. That didn't work out too well for her, did it? And I got all that abuse for driving a 100 mile round trip in agony to check on her as she wasn't answering anyone's calls! I just can't put myself in that position again. Sorry, I went off on a tangent there. I think I'll do what you suggested, get the ball rolling and then let them take over. My son advised me not to apply to the CoP, too, as he knows how ill it made me dealing with her, and he said it would be inevitable that I would have to have contact with both my mum and my brother at some point, and I can't do that. I don't even have a partner to lean on as I'm single, so my children would be indirectly affected by it, too.

We've left our contact details with the care home and social worker. Social worker keeps us in the loop, care home are only to contact us in dire emergencies.
It's the best we can do, there is no relationship, mil doesn't have capacity. We'd like to keep our sanity.

This is excellent and correct advice.

Don't worry about her potentially moving into a council funded home, if she doesn't leave her room, doesn't use the restaurant and bar, doesn't join in with activities then there's no point in paying extra i dont understand how she can afford to stay in a 2k a week home if she was living in a council funded house though, council run homes still have activities, lounges, visiting hairdressers, the food is usually as good and in my experience both professional and personal they are as good if not better than some private homes. She probably won't be happy wherever she is, someone needs to carry out a formal capacity assessment, and no the family don't need to be the ones applying for deputyship.

I don't know how much your mother had (or still has) in savings, but when her savings fall to £23,250 she would not pay her care home fees anyway. The council start paying at that point, she would just contribute her pension. And that means the council have the say about which care home she goes to.

£2k a week in fees would strip out her savings very fast anyway, that isn't sustainable unless you have mega bucks.

As has been said, Social Services can arrange a deputyship. They may have implied the family have to do it because obviously it's easier for SS if they do (and quite often the family do want to do it). It is a LOT of hassle, let SS take over, you do not need to get involved.

Look up office of the public guardian " panel deputies", it makes it very clear that family do not need to take this on

A couple of years ago, she told me that she had 'found' a bank account with a lot of money n it. I was 'grey rock' ing her as she's highly narcissistic and thrives on reactions, so I just said 'that's good'. She was dying for me to ask how much was in it and how had she : found' it. So she said 'I'm not going to tell you how much is in there, but it's a life changing amount'. Still I didn't ask and never have, veven though I have struggled financially myself and she knew it. When I spoke to my sister about the care home, she said they asked for proof that she could fund a year's stay, which she could, but that she wouldn't be able to find a 2 year stay. So that means she has at least £100k, or did...I suspect there is a lot less now as brother has been funding holidays and god knows what else with her credit card and withdrawing cash almost on a daily basis.
My sister also knows how much DM has but went tell me.
As for being happy, no... She's never happy, never has been, even long before this. She ruined so many occasions and events because if all attention wasn't on her all the time, she'd storm out... She has ruined christenings, birthdays, and Christmases with her attitude. I remember she told me I laugh too much a few years ago and that there was something wrong with me!

Apologies for typos, I didn't have my glasses on!

Thank you, I will 😊

That's exactly it, I need to keep my sanity. My son told me last night that I have to be 'selfish' and put myself first. He knows the stress I feel when dealing with her and said it's not 'selfish to be selfish' when it comes to peace of mind.

She has, according to my sister, enough to fund one year at this home but not two years, so she must have somewhere between £100k and £200k, or had before my thieving brother got his hands on her credit card. My sister knows how much she has but won't tell me.

OP both your M and B sound thoroughly unpleasant, you don’t owe them anything. The only person other than yourself that I would want to offer a bit of support to is your Dsis who does sound like she is trying to do the right thing. I would say that you have consulted some specialist support groups regarding the deputyship ( no need to say its mumsnet) and they have advised the best way to get everything sorted out is to let social services take on that role and they will be able to check any misuse of the account. You could say that you would be unlikely to be awarded it because of the estrangement anyway and it’s not practical for her to take it on because of the cost and being abroad.

Thank you. Yes, she's struggling, too, but having spoken to her this morning, she has admitted that she can't take it on and understands that I can't either as she didn't realize that it was such a long, stressful process. So we've decided to turn it over to social services. I read into the panel guardians as suggested by another Mumsnetter above, and I read that they will make sure her money hasn't been misappropriated as part of their services, so that would take care of his thieving, which, I've found out today, is even worse...he took £2k out a month or so ago, and £4k the month before...God knows how much he took before that. I did tell my sister that I had been speaking with specialists (didn't mention Mumsnet) who advised me of all of this, and I think she feels relieved that the burden won't be on either of us.
This morning I have put a block on M's credit cards, which B has, so at least he won't be able to steal any more from her. Sister doesn't want him to get into trouble necessarily, but I do, I think he deserves everything that's coming to him. He's a nasty, evil man, even his three kids won't have anything to do with him. x

That's a great update, wishing you all the best x

At the end of the day ,as the social worker explained to us, the only contact the deputy will have with the money is paying the care home fees. That's all we need her for.

Well done @vivvyenn

Brother will soon realise that the bank are aware if he tries to use the card again and there will be cctv of him at atm.

Wishing you all the best OP. It never ceases to amaze me the number of awful toxic parents who expect care when elderly. Well no , they are not owed anything .

I would pay to see that happening! Unfortunately my sister is now backtracking and saying she doesn't want to get him into trouble but I have no such feelings. I'm expecting a huge backlash but I'm ok with that. X

She might feel differently if she realises he's stealing from mum, you and her and also from whoever worked hard to earn that money, he's also stealing from tax payers who will now be funding mums care

I totally agree. She was never there when I needed her, I've had to fight for everything in my life, doing it alone as I've been a single mum for many years with nobody to turn to. On the other hand, she was always bailing B out as he's the golden child and always has been. I can remember one time when he was utterly vile to me. She took his side even though she knew and admitted that he was in the wrong, because she had 'more to lose by upsetting him'. She's always chosen him and look where that got her. Her abuse started when I was very young...I bought her a little plant in a basket with my pocket money when I was only about 7. It was for her birthday and I kept it under my bed, watering it and making sure it was ok until her birthday. But somehow I got the day wrong and gave it to her a day late. She threw that little African violet against the wall in temper, smashing the basket into pieces and breaking the stems of all the flowers, all because I got the day wrong. To this day I can't give gifts without constantly apologising for them, birthdays and Christmas give me such anxiety. So no, I don't feel like I owe her anything. Xx