PoA admin -hassle registering it at financial institutions

[BeaTwix]

I've got Scottish PoA. So no nice code for me to give financial institutions.

I need to send them an original or a certified copy - some will accept a copy certified by any professional (thanks colleagues!) others only want them done by solicitors (£££).

I also paid for some "official" copies from the office of the public guardian-Scotland (OPG-S) which say clearly on the front "this document does not require to be certified" yet the financial institutions are still rejecting them as photocopies. Because despite being "official" that is what they look like. OPG-S stopped putting nice seals and bindings on docs in 2023.

Doesn't help that the oldie has accounts with over 27 organisations. I'm now down to mostly the ones with <£1000 in them, or that I can't walk into.

I've been trying to sort this out since September. It takes so long and I've spent a fortune on recorded delivery letters and the final insult yesterday was when I tried to use my hard fought card for the oldies bank account the bank declined it despite their being money in the account.

Trying to get this card involved one visit to branch with a tonne of documents, three phonecalls and two trips to Scotland to retrieve it as they wouldn't post it to my home address and the first time I went up the oldie assured me me that my debit card had arrived (I asked them to open it) but it turned out only to be some kind of plastic card with my online banking details on it - not chip and pin, no mastercard symbol. Slightly worrying too that oldie couldn't recognise what a debit card looked like.

I have no idea why the transaction was declined - 30 minutes previously I'd paid in around £500 of re-issued dividend/ rights issue cheques using the same card. So now the oldie owes me money again and after how shirty they got the last time I explained I was taking money to pay myself back I vowed I wasn't going to get into this position again.

Also a word of warning - if you don't pay in your dividend cheques they charge admin fees so the oldie lost a tonne of money as the entire value of some of her small shareholding dividends was eaten up in the re-issuing fees. Oldie should have signed up for DRIP or automatic payment into her bank account years ago but that would have meant them making a sensible decision/ following a system which has never been their strong point even before the current cognitive decline.

I've also finally got PoA registered and online banking set up for their Nationwide accounts (three visits to a branch, an executive level complaint, one new card reader and one phone call) and despite repeatedly saying in branch that I needed to manage the accounts online it transpires that I can't actually transact on any of the accounts. I can only check the balance. Sorting this out is yet another task.

Honestly burnout is very real.

So pleased you had that experience as that’s exactly what we are trying to do. I have been doing this job for a very long time, and it was a convoluted process many years ago. Now it’s really evolved for the better.

Yh OP I found it a nightmare. I had to deal with NatWest and they were shocking, actually going so far as it destroy an original POA legal document (but denying it). Absolute idiots who don’t understand their own jobs. But this was par for the course I found as lots of other institutions e.g. Marks & Spencer’s, didn’t know what the hell they were doing.

I felt I was going insane with the stress of it all. I did complain and get some financial recompense from NatWest their overall laziness and stupidity and gung ho destruction of legal documents. But the stress was real. I hope things improve for you. I think you had to really go straight for the complaints department jugular in the end. They don’t train their staff. And you are just left alone, dealing with these issues for hours and hours with people who don’t know their arse from their elbow even though it’s at their actual job which they are meant to be trained for.

PS solicitors were just as bad, unable to answer the phone, unable to locate documents, sending original POA documents to the wrong address, it was never-ending. Does anyone know their job in this country?

Having experience what I did, I would be much more prepared and willing to go straight to the complaints department of any company or institution at the first sign of incompetence rather than spend weeks and months flailing about with this nonsense

sorry, New Year rant.

@Jagsy thank you, I'll let my sister know. My dad also has loads of accounts but thank fully he has a spreadsheet of them all

Nationwide is one that I've struggled with. I have to ring the branch to make an appointment. The branch don't answer the phone. I can't go in to make the appointment, has to be on the phone. When I eventually get it registered, I am closing it. If they can't make things easy for me, they don't deserve the money.

Like you @BeaTwix I'm consolidating. I don't have a code either, as it's an Enduring PoA rather than an LPA and dealing with financial registration is a PITA. Why are their procedures all different?

@LookPixy maybe NatWest have improved as RBS (apart from not getting me/ then blocking my debit card) have actually been the easiest to deal with.

Current worst is Nationwide/ Computershare.

Nationwide say you can just go into a branch. This is bollocks. You need an appointment and it's really hard to find the phone numbers to set one up without going in.

Computershare are the ones who can't recognise an original Scottish PoA document and think it's a copy when it isn't although my sibling who did this for the oldie's husband says there will be more.

@Soontobe60 assumption is the mother of all fuck ups.
My Mother was considerably more functional/ considerate/ pleasant than the oldie (who knows we call her that). It's actually one of the worst things about helping her is that people keep thinking she is my mother.

@unsync I did an exec level complaint to Nationwide and got some compensation which I donated (next time I'm keeping it).

I'm actually in the process of moving all my own accounts including mortgage away from themas I was so pissed off.

They also haven't changed the website to say you need to make an appointment or how to do so.

This is the complaints address: [email protected]

Apology call from financial institution that triggered this thread.

POA registered using the copy of the document they made (that they now accept was a legitimate OPG-S version) and £100 compensation.

Which has been paid to the oldie.

So I guess next time I'm up lunch is on her!

Something my mum did before her stroke was to consolidate all her accounts. It was still quite difficult but about a thousand times easier than this sounds. Barclays have been excellent but that's partly because I live fairly close to an actual branch, and quite a big one at that. God help you if you don't.

Interesting that NatWest have been terrible. I used to work as a temp in a compliance org years ago. There were SO many complaint files about NatWest but they were quite thin, suggesting they got a lot of complaints but resolved them well. There were very few about Lloyds but their files were always almost a foot thick and documented unresolved complaints going on for months.

I am in the process of consolidating 38 accounts for my parents, although over less institutions (a mere 12 or so). I am going to have the issue of going over 85k but was thinking I would put the majority into NS&I which is fully protected. Doesn't help for the cash isas though as NS&I won’t accept tfrs in. Doubt the cash platforms would be useful for this but I could look.

Similar to someone mentioned upthread, this is all a result of chasing interest rates so virtually all accounts are fixed term so I need to keep on top of when they are maturing. A number of the building societies will just roll them over into a similar fixed term account otherwise.

So far, I have found YBS one of the best to deal with - can get full online access and via the app. They were also the most helpful in branch and seem to offer good ongoing rates.
Skipton, Leeds, Nationwide won’t allow anything useful online so they will be shut as soon as I can.

Does anyone else find your elderly has a short-sighted approach to the numerous bank accounts? Mine chases interest rates but never seems to stop to think what they really mean. eg a regular saving account where you can pay in a maximum amount per month and which gives an extra .25% interest at the end of a year. But what that equates to in no way matches the time and inconvenience of getting the account open, dealing with it at the end of the term etc.

@EmotionalBlackmail yes, I think my parents almost treated it as a hobby, searching out all the best deals. Thankfully they didn’t go for any of those regular saver ones that are capped to £5k or whatever. If you have plenty of time on your hands I suppose it makes sense but definitely not when PoA has to step in!

A number of the building societies will just roll them over into a similar fixed term account otherwise. Though with a cooling off period. Do they not email you in the run up to maturity?

A lot better than the alternative, which is dropping them into an instant access with virtually no interest.

Skipton, Leeds, Nationwide won’t allow anything useful online so they will be shut as soon as I can. In contrast, I have local branches of Leeds and Skipton, so I’m planning to close YBS next, rather than set up yet another on-line account with its own password and protocols.

A building society assistant once suggested to me,and set up, three accounts with £5000 in each, which automatically circulated £100 between them, thus attracting the full regular savings on each. Of course it lasted only a couple of years before I had to transfer them all to something else. I was amazed she suggested it. It can’t have been what Head Office had in mind.

Bean there done this! Late Father had 25 plus bank accounts/savings accounts/NSI. You name it he had it!

Clearly there is plenty of money slosshing around so when father asked me to help he really didnt have clue what he had done and what a mess he had made (for me to sort out) So, as a full time working parent I said I would try. He offered to pay me to resolve and do you know what? I took the money. Car parking charges, petrol for my car, the odd lunch and it made me feel better. God knows why but it did.

I got agreement from my siblings who were living abroad and they were just relieved they didnt have to do it and tbh werent capable of doing it anyway.

Yup. Just discovered the joy of no online banking with Skipton.

Nationwide have told me in order to transact online I need to open a nationwide current account for her.

Yep, I’ve just given notice to close a Skipton account today solely because no online access for POA. The default would have been to rollover for a year.

I had the same comment from Nationwide, but POA also required to have a current account to get online access. No thanks.

And today's institutional fuck up is NSANDI who have joined computershare in the camp of not being able to recognise Scottish Power of Attorney documentation.

They've rejected my OPG-S provided copy as an uncertified photocopy. As previously it even says on the front "this copy does not require certification"

Complaint submitted.

NS&I were the wordst. The MOST inflexible, the hardest to navigate, the ones which wanted the highest level of documents including originals. Total pain.

Sending you permission to scream out loud, OP.

My outlaws are finally registering PoA's we signed for them 7 years ago and gleefully announced that they wanted to do everything on paper.

For English residents (and apologies to Scottish OP) we seem to be able to set ourselves up on the govt gateway so banks can see we have PoA status without losing a bit of paper in the post (or a public sector postroom).

We spent MONTHS arguing about the status of my widowed mother's simple will after HMRC had removed a staple to scan it during lockdown.

Deep breath; you'll get there eventually.

It continues. NSANDI rejected my complaint as it contained an "attachment". Yes. A photograph of the front page of the power of attorney showing the stonking great statement "this certificate and following pages of the power of attorney do not need to be certified".

So complaint about a complaint just gone in.

And BT have offered me £50 to cover the multiple emails/ phonically required to:

1. resurrect my oldie after they killed her off when I asked them register her PoA
2. the phone calls required to try to get them to re-send a back up battery for her home hub which she needs because of her home care alarm but which they dispatched without telling anyone when she was in hospital which was then left in her bin. And as no one knew it was coming the bin was emptied with predictable consequences.
3. the phone calls required to get them to refund the charges for the back up battery as she should have got it free as a vulnerable customer
4. the time it took me to establish on the internet that they have a wireless adaptor that old fashioned cordless phones can plug into which means she can keep the same phone beside her bed. This is essential as she is confused and learning how a new cordless one works is probably beyond her. BT help desk could only suggest I buy a new set of cordless phones.
5. the phone calls and emails to get them to provide said wireless adaptor.

I mean £50.... It's actually quite insulting. Would they have offered a male carer such a derisory sum?

I hate to say it 10yrs into the process and I still have issues with this
Having to reissue copies when institutions/ companies merge or lose their records or because it's a Tuesday 🙄
We don't have a code - too old paperwork so have to go down the physical copy route too and it's a serious PITA
Lloyds bank have been the only institution that was actually helpful - both the branch where mum used to live and my local one have been excellent
Solicitors when we sold her house when she went into care were ok but not as on the ball as they should be
Pensions, investments and service providers dire

And today NSANDI emailed me in response to my complaint about them rejecting a legitimate PoA as a copy that I have now submitted to them three times. The emails bounced initially as they included a photograph of the document showing the "this document does not need to be certified" statement.

My complaint was included in full at the bottom of their email but the text of their email asked me to resubmit it!!!

And they have sent the PoA back to me - I seriously hope they copied it rather than simply writing to inform me they were (erroneously) rejecting it as I really really can't be arsed to go to the post office again to send it recorded delivery.

And it continues.

I opened a savings account for her with her own bank. I've had the PoA active on this for months and have been operating the account using online banking without hassle. I Had to open the new account on the phone as attorneys can't open on line.

Savings account still hasn't popped up in my online banking a week later so I phoned them. The PoA isn't on the new savings account. And apparently I can only get it registered on the new savings account by going into branch (there isn't one in London as it is a Scottish bank) with all the documents again.

And. I can't remove the overdraft limit on the current account either as I"m meant to do that on the digital banking but when I try to do so I get an error message telling me that I don't have a current account. When I blatantly do.

I need to do all this as I want to keep the amount in her current account low as she is more confused and her spending is now erratic.

Urgh..

@BeaTwix sorry to hear, POA really is shambolic. I think I would register POA somewhere new, ideally where you already have online access to your own accounts and open a new savings account there.

And. I can't remove the overdraft limit on the current account either as I"m meant to do that on the digital banking but when I try to do so I get an error message telling me that I don't have a current account. When I blatantly do. That is appalling! I’ve had no problem opening new accounts with building societies without re-presenting the PoA documents, although admittedly I do it in branch, so that may be different.