Is it better sometimes NOT to have PoA?

[Orangesandlemons77]

In some situations could it be better not to have power of attorney for an elderly relative particularly if they are difficult or abusive?

Yes, absolutely.

It only works if there is trust, if the attorneys can follow the donor's wishes, and if the donor does not take advantage and act abusively to the attorney.

If any doubt, just don't do it, from either side.

Absolutely. If you are someone’s PoA it draws you firmly into their world and keeps you there. It puts you in a position of having to make judgement calls in their best interest, which is always going to be potentially awkward.
You do not have to say yes if you don’t want to become someone’s PoA. If you are asking the question here it suggests to me you should be saying a very firm ‘no’.

DH has recently decided not to be one for different reasons. In his case it is debatable now whether the donor has capacity to consent so too late, but I was quietly relieved that DH isn't doing it. It is a huge responsibility and a lot of potential to go wrong.

If you don't have it the state takes over I understand? / social services? and doctors make medical decisions?

If the person loses capacity, and no one is prepared to apply for a Deputyship Order, the Local Authority usually arrange for a solicitors firm with a large enough team to make the application.

Health wise, the doctors and Local Authority make the decisions.

I decided not to have POA for my mum, although it would’ve made some things easier.

i just don’t fully trust her and has a tendency to change her mind with stuff & I didn’t want the responsibility of it.

I think trust is key with POA.

We’re wondering. We want access to her money as she has absolutely loads and should be able to buy in good quality care. Otherwise she’ll be dependent on what the local authority provide and charge her for, with no choices. I’m pretty sure she wants the best of everything and the only way to get it is to allow us to access her money to pay for it. I’m not removing money from my pension to pay for it!
Her reason for not wanting my sister to have health PoA is that she thinks Sis will skimp and go basic. I’ve pointed out that the council will go even more basic if it’s left to them!

Mine doesn’t want to make it evident that she only (just about) trusts me. It’s very sad.

They made them for my Nanna in spite of my POA tbh. It was a thought time but the POA just left me responsible but with very little voice.

I guess you could get the money one and not the health one (there are two kinds)

Yes, there are. Imo if you wouldn't normally be expected to be involved in someone's care, PoA is a huge burden.

However, if you are eg a child of a person receiving care, you will probably be involved whether you like it or not, and at least PoA or health potentially allows you to advocate for the person's best interests.

We only have PoA for finances and that is pretty much an unmixed good tbh, given the situation (sudden stroke and total loss of capacity overnight).

I agreed to be a back up POA for my Mums partner never expecting to have to do it BUT she did die first and I would have been in a position to have to continue to be involved with a man I don't like and didn't really have a relationship with.
Luckily his DD found out and threw a tantrum and got a new one naming her instead. I have no idea how as he didn't really have capacity by then but I was so relieved I didn't question it - not that I was informed but I saw a bill from a solicitor I shoudln't have.

My parent didn't give me PoA, no siblings. No house to sell.
Adult ss took over there pension and paid for the care home etc. liased with me about there council house, care and bills.
Was pretty easy and I don't really have to do much other than zoom call meetings about the care.

If PoA was not given what would happen if the elderly relative needed to go into a care home, with the house? Do they put a charge against the house to pay for this and would this be manageable without the PoA?

Do they still have capacity? If they refuse to sell, there is usually a DPA so the Council can recoup their costs. Honestly, you are better off selling the house, releasing the funds and putting your relative in a home of your choosing. If you leave it to the Council, you won't get much, if any, choice as to where they end up.

AgeUK website is very informative about funding options.

Once they'd obtained a Deputyship Order, they'd probably sell to pay fees. They wouldn't want to mess around with a charge or renting the property out.

LAs very rarely (if ever) make Deputyship applications for Health and Welfare matters. Decision makers for social care matters would be a Social Worker and for medical decisions a Doctor, other health professional. Professionals who make 'Best Interest' decisions for people without capacity follow a legally defined formula, which involves consulting family/friends about their views or if there is no one to consult they commission a professional advocate.
LPoA for finances/property is different as others cannot make and enact financial decisions without a legal basis. If someone hasn't given LPoA and decisions need to be made the LA may apply for Deputyship, or more likely ask a local Solicitor to. and is entitled to charge professional fees for this. This is an expensive and prolonged process.

It’s things like, needing to change the insurance on her house if she’s not living there anymore. So much that would be ‘stuck’ waiting.

Re Insurance - what if other family members visit the house / stay over, so the house is never left empty for 31 days? Does the name on the insurance cover need to be changed to the person who uses the house more?

It always will be the medics making the decisions, and social services can only give what is in their gift. What PoA gives you is the ability to speak for the person and make sure their wishes are heard, even though they may be overridden by medical concerns

If you have a family member living in a house owned by a grandparent, the insurance will want you to change to a landlord policy, even if there is no letting contract and no rent.

grandparent - does the same apply to parent?

@Coldilocks My DM’s home insurer allows the property to be unoccupied for a maximum of 60 days. Occasional stays by relatives wouldn’t count towards occupancy. After that it needs to be changed to a specialist insurer for empty properties. The insurer asked if I had LPA but didn’t require a copy. I’ve also notified the Council as it becomes council tax exempt and have had to prove that I have LPA to do that.

We just have the financial LPA, I don’t think we’d want to do the health one as we’re IK with the medical professionals taking the decisions. We did make sure that the care home had a copy of the RESPECT form.

@MereDintofPandiculation

It always will be the medics making the decisions, and social services can only give what is in their gift. What PoA gives you is the ability to speak for the person and make sure their wishes are heard, even though they may be overridden by medical concerns

It wasn't medical decisions, it was trying to get her discharged from hospital to a care home. She suffered months of utter neglect at the hands of 'carers' who said she was fine to be left alone. Nobody listened to me. Nobody.

Thanks @SabrinaThwaite

If she wasn't a self-funder, there isn't a lot of choice. The LA will not pay for a care home unless she can't manage at home, and will often want to trial that. Managing at home means sitting alone in a room with a commode for company and up to 4 visits daily from carers. It is appalling what is considered an acceptable quality of life for our elderly people.