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Elderly parents
Original poster

What next please with 92 yr old father

63 replies

Dogwitjstripes · 02/12/2024 22:18

Asking for some sage advice from the Elderly Care experts on here please.

DF is 92 next May, living independently and has been widowed for 25 years. Has coped remarkably well for the most part, still cooks for himself, dresses, no carers and drove until relatively recently. Rarely has falls but has been diagnosed with mixed vascular dementia and alzheimers. He doesn't present too badly with it for the most part but he's suddenly become frantic about dying and not coping.

I have a sibling and we get on very well but both live a distance away in two different directions, neither of us get on particular well with DF, I have had a very torturous relationship with him all my life but he's on his own so....

He trialled a care home last year for a month but hated it and came back out again, he's refusing carers and only wants the two of us in the house, it's impossible for us to go very often to visit but he's not bathing for fear of drowning, emailing us every night begging us to go down (can't phone him as always ends in horrific hours long arguments). I know I should probably post this on the Stately Homes thread in a way because the poor relationship clouds what we can or are prepared to do but does anyone have experience of what in general can be done or what is likely to happen next? He has a cleaner and she takes him food shopping occasionally, he refuses to let me organise an on line food shop, refuses to allow a taxi to take him to the shops (he has the financial means).

I've read loads of threads on this board over the years and most seem to say that it won't change until a real emergency occurs, is that the case for the most part do you all think?

TIA

OP posts:
Original poster
Dogwitjstripes · 04/12/2024 13:43

SlB09 · 03/12/2024 22:50

So to be practical:

-establish POA for health and welfare as well as finance, this is essential for things to go smoothly later on (if he will at all consent).

  • search if you have an admiral nurse (dementia specialist) in your local area and get in touch with them, they provide support to you and most importantly your dad and are really well versed in this kind of situation
  • sounds like gp's are still treating him quite proactively which is making me think he comes across as quite well generally? I wonder if you taking him to appointments is actually hindering adequate response as no one is seeing the reality of his life. Would he be housebound if you didn't/couldn't take him? I.e meaning gp/district nurses would need to visit at home?
  • when was he diagnosed with dementia? If still under memory clinic they would be very well placed to review his anxiety which is a really common symptom of his condition and treat accordingly. If remains under them you can ring yourself, if not would need re referring - ideal opportunity to bring this issue up with GP.
  • is he self neglecting? You can raise this through your local safeguarding adults route through the council meaning they will assess his situation, his capacity to live as he is/make unwise decisions etc and go from there re care decisions. Someone needs to check he's taking his medications correctly - again he needs someone with eyes on to see him inside his own home.
  • you can book a free safety visit from the fire brigade which he may accept to double check the safety of the home
  • don't feel bad about not wanting to be massively involved or have a fantastic relationship, it is very frequently the case and not unusual at all. I admire those who still ensure parents are safe after difficult relationships.

Thank you SO much for taking the time to type out all this information, so useful and kind of you.

  1. We don't have POA for Health only financial, will look at this.
  2. I'd never heard of an Admiral Nurse, I've had contact with the memory clinic so wondering if I could pursue through them.
  3. We only take him to the odd appointment due to living a distance away so he sees the GP independently most of the time. He prints off great long sheets of ailments that he presents on every visit. He wouldn't be housebound as such, has a couple of church friends who will take him if we can't plus he's actually quite mobile, just walking with a stick.
  4. He was diagnosed with dementia about a year ago? I can get back in touch with the Memory Clinic again and hope he's still under them but got a feeling they discharged him, I could be misremembering though.
  5. He's able to have the odd bath, didn't ever future proof his house so no shower or anything as useful as that. He does wash his clothes and always well presented.
  6. My sibling is a nurse and she goes through all his medication with him on a fairly regular basis and we think he takes everything pretty methodically.
  7. The Alzheimers Society sent their representative around and she mentioned the Fire Brigade, I think it would send him into a complete tizz if they visited though as think it would take around 4 hours she said! He'd never carry out any of the recommendations but does have smoke and C02 alarms installed.

Thank you again x

OP posts:
Original poster
Dogwitjstripes · 04/12/2024 13:46

Soonenough · 03/12/2024 22:56

I had a great relationship with my father but I still couldn't manage to do more than you are doing right now . The lack of control over your life , home , status are so overwhelming in the elderly. Uncooperative behaviour is a common theme here . He wants only you and your sister as he might feel that he will have some say over his affairs . Strangers that he doesn't know or trust must be frightening for him.

You have had some very useful advice here. This is a whole new path for you all but the professionals have dealt with this so many times before . He will be made aware of his options and hopefully he will allow a care package to avoid residential care . The carers won't have a problem with the state of the house provided it is basically hygienic enough .

Thank you for saying that it's made me feel a lot better! The guilt for not doing more and finding it hard to do more is incredible. A lot of FOG.

I so hope he will accept some help, he's just so reluctant but I get what you're saying about us being familiar and carers being strangers. We are definitely not going to be caring for him though which we suspect strongly is all he will settle for ..... not happening though!

OP posts:
PineappleCoconut · 04/12/2024 14:17

My father was very similar.

It's very hard for you, more so with distance.

What helped with my father was bringing in 'not carers'. Starting with his cleaner, who as you've found ends up doing more and more, then we found a home help, & a sort of elders' personal assistant. As long as we avoided the 'carer' label he was more willing to accept 'help'.

Has he got Attendance Allowance & the council tax disregard for dementia/Severe Mental Impairment? With both I persuaded him that the help he received cost him nothing/was free.

Original poster
Dogwitjstripes · 04/12/2024 14:27

PineappleCoconut · 04/12/2024 14:17

My father was very similar.

It's very hard for you, more so with distance.

What helped with my father was bringing in 'not carers'. Starting with his cleaner, who as you've found ends up doing more and more, then we found a home help, & a sort of elders' personal assistant. As long as we avoided the 'carer' label he was more willing to accept 'help'.

Has he got Attendance Allowance & the council tax disregard for dementia/Severe Mental Impairment? With both I persuaded him that the help he received cost him nothing/was free.

Not got AA will chase that thank you. Re the carers, he could pay, just can't countenance the idea. Personal Assistant is a great idea, unfortunately his cleaner has a fairly chaotic life of her own otherwise I'd almost pay her anything to step in!

OP posts:
MichaelandKirk · 04/12/2024 14:39

Have been through this twice! Keep boundaries. The very elderly will take massive liberties and I am sorry to sound harsh but they will become incredibly self absorbed and want things done the way they want them or throw a massive tantrum.

Please look free yourself and not allow them to take over your life

PineappleCoconut · 04/12/2024 14:40

My DF could pay too, he was just too old/stubborn/independent/frugal - the 'free' money was the push he needed to overcome his unwillingness. I think AA also would qualify him for winter fuel allowance now it's not universal, which would have pleaded DF to, in his view, get one over on the government Grin

The forms are awfully long. Get CAB to help you with it.

Shame that you cleaner can't do more hours, but ask if she knows any home help. Or another place to ask is the local dementia cafe. With DF alongside his cleaner we started with a lady who 'just popped in to make him a hot lunch'.

Original poster
Dogwitjstripes · 04/12/2024 14:41

PineappleCoconut · 04/12/2024 14:40

My DF could pay too, he was just too old/stubborn/independent/frugal - the 'free' money was the push he needed to overcome his unwillingness. I think AA also would qualify him for winter fuel allowance now it's not universal, which would have pleaded DF to, in his view, get one over on the government Grin

The forms are awfully long. Get CAB to help you with it.

Shame that you cleaner can't do more hours, but ask if she knows any home help. Or another place to ask is the local dementia cafe. With DF alongside his cleaner we started with a lady who 'just popped in to make him a hot lunch'.

Your first paragraph so resonates!

OP posts:
Original poster
Dogwitjstripes · 04/12/2024 14:42

MichaelandKirk · 04/12/2024 14:39

Have been through this twice! Keep boundaries. The very elderly will take massive liberties and I am sorry to sound harsh but they will become incredibly self absorbed and want things done the way they want them or throw a massive tantrum.

Please look free yourself and not allow them to take over your life

His capacity for being self absorbed is quite extraordinary yes. How did you survive two??!

OP posts:
MichaelandKirk · 04/12/2024 14:49

I ended up not discussing the way things would be done. Other wise you go round and round in circles. If they wanted something sorted I would do it on MY terms. Your Father sounds like he likes to moan and gain attention. Dont give it. It’s their way of getting control.

God, I sound like a right cow!

Fraaahnces · 04/12/2024 14:54

You have to strategize…. When they call, tell them that you only have ten minutes (or five minutes, or fifteen if you’re generous) to talk because you’re going out/expecting a call/expecting a visitor/ whatever…. I did this with my mum. Much empathy.
I limited her moaning to ten mins. She was unwilling to make the changes she needed. I was unwilling to be her sounding board - let’s be honest, I’d never been a person to her, I was just the only one left. When she got to ten mins, I would interrupt and tell her that I had to go. I had a billion reasons why - and often I would tell her it was because I had been listening to her moaning for ten minutes every day for two weeks and she hadn’t asked me a single thing about my life, so I was not going to waste any more time I couldn’t get back with people who didn’t care about me. Guaranteed the next day I would get a perfunctory “So…. How are things? Well, I blah, blah, blah…”. (The classic “Enough about you, let’s talk about me.”)

Original poster
Dogwitjstripes · 04/12/2024 16:56

MichaelandKirk · 04/12/2024 14:49

I ended up not discussing the way things would be done. Other wise you go round and round in circles. If they wanted something sorted I would do it on MY terms. Your Father sounds like he likes to moan and gain attention. Dont give it. It’s their way of getting control.

God, I sound like a right cow!

Yes agree, I have a perfume called My Way which I always wear when I go there!

OP posts:
Original poster
Dogwitjstripes · 04/12/2024 16:58

Fraaahnces · 04/12/2024 14:54

You have to strategize…. When they call, tell them that you only have ten minutes (or five minutes, or fifteen if you’re generous) to talk because you’re going out/expecting a call/expecting a visitor/ whatever…. I did this with my mum. Much empathy.
I limited her moaning to ten mins. She was unwilling to make the changes she needed. I was unwilling to be her sounding board - let’s be honest, I’d never been a person to her, I was just the only one left. When she got to ten mins, I would interrupt and tell her that I had to go. I had a billion reasons why - and often I would tell her it was because I had been listening to her moaning for ten minutes every day for two weeks and she hadn’t asked me a single thing about my life, so I was not going to waste any more time I couldn’t get back with people who didn’t care about me. Guaranteed the next day I would get a perfunctory “So…. How are things? Well, I blah, blah, blah…”. (The classic “Enough about you, let’s talk about me.”)

We can't talk on the phone, ends in 2 hours long arguments. I knocked that on the head about 3 years ago...we email daily which takes the heat out of things slightly
..

OP posts:
GOODCAT · 04/12/2024 17:04

Would he try respite care in a different place to the one he tried before. A decent nursing home can make such a huge difference.

P00hsticks · 04/12/2024 17:05

Would a pendant or watch personal alarm perhaps help with his anxiety ?
Although he'd need a keysafe to give emergency services access (probably a good idea anyhow) and someone close by to act as a contact....

Age UK or Adult Social Services should be able to suggest some companies- there may even be ones specifically local to his area,,,,,

Original poster
Dogwitjstripes · 04/12/2024 17:08

GOODCAT · 04/12/2024 17:04

Would he try respite care in a different place to the one he tried before. A decent nursing home can make such a huge difference.

Funnily enough he's just written to say a friend in the village has recommended one locally which does look very lovely. Just praying he does the sensible thing ..

OP posts:
Original poster
Dogwitjstripes · 04/12/2024 17:09

P00hsticks · 04/12/2024 17:05

Would a pendant or watch personal alarm perhaps help with his anxiety ?
Although he'd need a keysafe to give emergency services access (probably a good idea anyhow) and someone close by to act as a contact....

Age UK or Adult Social Services should be able to suggest some companies- there may even be ones specifically local to his area,,,,,

We've talked about pendants for years but like everything else in his life he gets so far but then backs out/away so we never get to the action completed point unfortunately

OP posts:
Choux · 04/12/2024 18:13

The care home my mum is in does day care for a few elderly people. Could you see if the one in the village does? Then, he could go for a few days out there maybe driven by the cleaner as a favour and paid for by you?

If it's a nice place he might then see that his home is drab, quiet and lonely and be more amenable to trying a residential stay. If that goes well he will be living there and you can start the declutter of his home.

He can also just sign a letter giving the GP permission to discuss his medical history with you without having to do the full health POA registration. Then you and your sibling can get up to speed on your dad's health.

Original poster
Dogwitjstripes · 04/12/2024 18:33

Choux · 04/12/2024 18:13

The care home my mum is in does day care for a few elderly people. Could you see if the one in the village does? Then, he could go for a few days out there maybe driven by the cleaner as a favour and paid for by you?

If it's a nice place he might then see that his home is drab, quiet and lonely and be more amenable to trying a residential stay. If that goes well he will be living there and you can start the declutter of his home.

He can also just sign a letter giving the GP permission to discuss his medical history with you without having to do the full health POA registration. Then you and your sibling can get up to speed on your dad's health.

Thank you for your suggestions! Unfortunately we've tried that, he stayed for a month last year in the lovely local residential care home and absolutely loathed it, we took him out as he just kept going home every day... honestly you couldn't make it up...

OP posts:
Original poster
Dogwitjstripes · 04/12/2024 18:33

GP is happy to talk to us about his health as he gave permission fortunately

OP posts:
Womblewife · 04/12/2024 19:14

You have to be firm OP when you speak with him, no matter how difficult, and you may have to end the call if it gets nasty. You have to explain you and sibling live too far away to provide regular care and he needs help that you can’t give. If he chooses not to have this , it’s on him, but you have offered. It is unlikely he will let social care in to do an assessment by the sound of it, but I would tell him you called them and this is what is happening - it’s up to him if he refuses help. It’s sad situation, but I think I you have done all you can.

SabrinaThwaite · 04/12/2024 19:43

Is there a Community Support in the area? We are so fortunate that the one where my mum is (who sounds v much like your dad) will organise things like community transport to hospital appointments, arranged a key safe and falls bracelet, does Meals on Wheels etc.

We’ve finally managed to get DM in for a couple of weeks respite care at a local residential home - she wasn’t taking her meds, eating or drinking and was having hallucinations, and it ended in all three emergency services attending and having to break into the house. My DSis had seen her 10 days before and she had been OK. Things can spiral out of control so quickly.

Original poster
Dogwitjstripes · 04/12/2024 22:56

SabrinaThwaite · 04/12/2024 19:43

Is there a Community Support in the area? We are so fortunate that the one where my mum is (who sounds v much like your dad) will organise things like community transport to hospital appointments, arranged a key safe and falls bracelet, does Meals on Wheels etc.

We’ve finally managed to get DM in for a couple of weeks respite care at a local residential home - she wasn’t taking her meds, eating or drinking and was having hallucinations, and it ended in all three emergency services attending and having to break into the house. My DSis had seen her 10 days before and she had been OK. Things can spiral out of control so quickly.

He refuses to engage with the community support hub (funnily enough..)

Oh that's awful re your mum, that sounds very distressing, really hope she can be helped long term x

OP posts:
SabrinaThwaite · 05/12/2024 11:16

Thanks @Dogwitjstripes

Elderly parents can be so utterly selfish.

PineappleCoconut · 05/12/2024 12:52

Thank you for your suggestions! Unfortunately we've tried that, he stayed for a month last year in the lovely local residential care home and absolutely loathed it, we took him out as he just kept going home every day... honestly you couldn't make it up...^
^

My DF that too, escaping from really lovely and extremely expensive care home, that was the only place I could get him into locally for respite care. They had pristine white tablecloths and served a choice of wine with dinner. Sherry in the afternoon with cake.
^
Except he would call a taxi, charged it to his room, and the staff were so worried they sent a member of staff with him, also charged to me.

It's funny now. ^

^At the time it wasn't.
I was tearing my hair out.^

Original poster
Dogwitjstripes · 05/12/2024 14:12

PineappleCoconut · 05/12/2024 12:52

Thank you for your suggestions! Unfortunately we've tried that, he stayed for a month last year in the lovely local residential care home and absolutely loathed it, we took him out as he just kept going home every day... honestly you couldn't make it up...^
^

My DF that too, escaping from really lovely and extremely expensive care home, that was the only place I could get him into locally for respite care. They had pristine white tablecloths and served a choice of wine with dinner. Sherry in the afternoon with cake.
^
Except he would call a taxi, charged it to his room, and the staff were so worried they sent a member of staff with him, also charged to me.

It's funny now. ^

^At the time it wasn't.
I was tearing my hair out.^

I totally get you! x

OP posts: