Health&welfareLPA anyone implemented with regard to eg carers when donor not willing?

[whatwouldyoudoifisangoutofkey]

Or any other scenario where an action is resisted but clearly needed by donor?
eg dementia ,insulin dependent diabetic living alone and refusing access to nurse ?
or
unable to prepare even a sandwich unwilling to eat but refusing delivery of food or preparation of snacks to be left
I understand the concept of an LPA but struggle with imagining how,in practice ,one might be used .
These aren't current or real life situations but I just wondered if anyone had any experience .
I appreciate capability needs to be assessed and also that it is decision dependent.

@rickyrickygrimes interesting. We have LPA for both our parents, Finance and Health. It didn’t stop the Deprivation of Liberty being invoked for our Dad even though our mother wasn’t happy and kept stating LPA existed.

I had both for both parents and there is some misunderstanding around the Health one I know. I registered at the GP and as others said I could book all sorts and they contacted me for any medical concerns.

There was some pressure on me to take her to appointments but I refused. It would be half a day out of my working week and Mum had lost track of time and what it was doing to me. She wasnt diagnosised with dementia but had some memory loss and became very worried about silly little things.

When both parents were in hospital the staff didnt seem interested in me having it. They never asked for it and freely spoke to me about the diagnosis. I suspect so its that I can own and manage some of the issues rather than her being assigned a social worker.

The LPA for Finance is much more useful. I ran both parents accounts with no issue once the LPA was registered which was a saga in itself. Lots of companies dont understand it and what they need to ask for. There is code now rather than touting around the full LPA which the financial institution needed to copy. On one occasion when you needed the whole document they gave it back to me and forgot one page (it was left on the copier). I only noticed when I took it to the next institution and put two and two together.

As an aside. I wish we could have a robust conversation within the government regarding very old age. Our hospital wards are full of very elderly people having fallen with dementia and those poor nurses chasing after people who dont know where they are, trying to escape and wandering off. One lady tried to climb into a strangers bed and managed to push the other person out who then cracked some ribs.

I would like to see specialist hospitals for the very elerly built or allocated esepcially for them. Where they arent bed blocking (sorry I dont know another word).

I fear no government want to tackle it properly. Cross party conversations. they are too busy making their own political career. Just look what happens when there is a suggestion of co payment. The loud mouths say some people dont have 50p etc etc. In my view there is a place for a co payment system. The NHS is a monster who has got so big now they are dominating spending.

Everyone agrees its not fit for purpose but they want 'others' to pay for it.

@MichaelandKirk that was really useful thanks. And bravo to the point about ‘robust conversations’. Everything changed in the mid 80s regarding geriatric care as many wards were simply full and care homes were not really fit for purpose. We then saw a boom in care homes as local authorities needed to find something or somewhere suitable for people to be cared for. It is a massive industry. We are keeping people alive with advanced medications etc but in reality there is little quality of life. That last sentence reads awkwardly so to caveat this I am not saying we should be leaving people to die just that we need a broader discussion.

@BlueLegume interesting.

In grand-MILs case I don’t think there was a DOL. She was put into a care home, whereas the family would have preferred her to stay home with carers coming and the 4 daughters (all living locally) to plug the gaps. But the social worker overruled this. She was in rented accommodation and no savings and just the state pension, so she wasn’t self funding at all.

@MichaelandKirk

id agree that hospital staff don’t seem to care. In our case they spoke to FIL as the spouse, then SIL or DH if they asked. But it was more because they were family / next of kin and they were present. If someone else outside the family had been granted POA for MIL, I think they would still have spoken to family first.

I agree 100% with everything else you say. And it’s not even necessarily advanced medicine keeping people alive being their natural span, it’s teams of poorly paid carers and highly profitable enterprises. All because we are too squeamish to be honest about death.

Mum was on her way to the next place and didnt need food and drink where she was going. Her body was shutting down and she knew looking back that the time was here for her to pass on. She took sips of water and I did give her a little ice cream a few days before passing. Mum LOVED ice cream and although she only took a tiny amount she knew what it was.

However, I was asked by various carers if they could order build up drinks and give them to her in her favourite flavour. I said no. I did see one carer once trying to feed Mum a roast dinner which was totally impractible. i guess they thought they would try. Sometimes religious beliefs get in the way with some carers (it did with my late DF). All life is worth preserving and all that.

Three things I would urge the NHS to think of:

1. Get specialist hospitals for the elderly. Dont dump them into the general ones. Mum was on a ward with 100% very elderly women. One was a danger to all with her behaviour and I asked whether this poor women could be moved to a dementia ward to be told that was full. We are ignoring the obvious here
2. Co payment within the NHS
3. Have conversations around quality of life for the very elderly. Mum wanted to die every day in the last few months of her life. Keep her comfortable but let her choose. She had capacity which everyone goes on about. Let them choose. Mum wasnt in pain in the last week of her life. The EOL drugs had kicked in.