My parents think they don't need a will?

[27Bumblebees]

My df is 79 and dm is 80, and while they're still doing OK mentally, my dm has a bunch of health issues, has had cancer several times, pneumonia often, and is currently dealing with recurring vestibular migraines. Df is really fit for his age, and does some risky but worthwhile activities like regular sailing (racing) and skiing.

My df told me today that as long as both of them are living, they don't need a will because the surviving person will know what the person who passes would have wanted. I'm a bit nervous about this, as it seems like they're deferring decisions (or at least writing them down for anyone), and when one of them dies my db and I will have to rely heavily on our grieving surviving parent to answer all the questions about their affairs.

Just to be clear, the estate would remain with the surviving parent so there's no issue with money grabbing or anything of the sort. I asked him if he knew what my dm wanted to do with her sentimental pieces of jewellery, and he didn't know, and I asked him about his uncle's war medals, and he hadn't even considered them. Df said to me today he doesn't care a jot what happens to him after he's dead. So it feels like he's leaving a lot of the decisions up to us to sort out, which I guess I'm a bit surprised by.

My db and I get along and I trust if there wasn't a will we'd split everything evenly. But there's no appointed executor, and I'm not sure where we'd start. My dm has one surviving brother, my df no siblings left. I'm married with 3 kids and my db has 2 kids with his ex (teenagers, he's got primary custody after acrimonious divorce and family violence towards their kids by his ex wife, which she was prosecuted for). He now has a fiancee who brings with her a son. I'm not sure if any of that is relevant but thought I'd give some context.

Am I concerned over nothing? Or do you think it would be helpful for my parents to make a will while they're in a good state of mind, so we know what their wishes are? What are the risks and should I be suggesting anything to them at this stage? I don't have much sway over what they do generally, they're completely independent and I don't intend to have any control over their affairs.

As far as I'm aware everyone would have a will. I have one. It's the sensible thing to do a part of being a responsible adult in my view. Ultimately, their choice, all you can do is help them be adequately informed about their decision not to have a will.

I am not a lawyer, but if a widow or widower dies with no will (having inherited from their deceased DP), does not their estate get divided equally between their offspring? So you and DB would inherit half each of the value of the estate? However details such as who gets what particular items would need working out between you.

Your parents do need a will, everyone should have one especially if they have children. How the estate is split depends on it's value, if it's over a certain amount portions can go to children. Plus of course it's so much easier if wishes have been discussed in advance. Some people find it hard to acknowledge that they are actually going to die, but we're all in the same boat here.

It’s just all much easier if there is a will and executors - it’s a kindness to you who are left behind.

Does he just not want to think about it and not care what happens, or does he genuinely think there is no benefit to those left behind in him having a will?

What does he assume will happen, and is he right?

The is has just reminded me to get a new will sorted. It can be done easily online for little money. There’s no reason for it to be complicated for them if they just say to split anything after they both die between you and your brother. Then it’s your wills that decide for your children etc

If a person dies intestate, ie. without a will, then their estate does not automatically pass to a surviving spouse. The intestacy rules apply and depending on the value issue (children) will be entitled to a share. If the marital home and any other property is held under joint tenancies, they will pass automatically to the other party so this may not be a problem.
It is so much easier for a surviving spouse to deal with a partner's estate if there is a will in place and they are relatively simple to draw up. Most charities offer free or reduced cost wills in return for a donation.
Tell your parents to stop being so bloody selfish and get it sorted. You have enough to do without babysitting fully grown and capable adults.

So the spouse who dies first would want the surviving spouse to inherit everything? Under intestacy laws, this may not happen particularly if the estate is more than £322k. Probably easily resolvable if you all get along well but extra hassle nonetheless.

It also leaves the grieving spouse and family a mess to sort out...
'oh, they promised me I could have XYZ' etc.

Without a will then the intestacy rules apply. Clearly anything your parents own as joint tenants pass under the rule of survivorship but anything in sole name would be affected. But why make things anymore complicated than they need be? Get a will drawn up and appoint an executor- easier for everyone.

I’m not a legal expert but having recently dealt with two deaths, one with a will and one without I would strongly recommend people having them. Wills are also not particularly expensive. In my experience they helped in:-

1. Reducing the amount of stress for the Executors/next of kin (who are grieving) by reducing the amount of bureaucracy. Being an executor, I found it much easier to deal with Banks, insurance companies, Pensions, etc (because there was a will in place).
2. Avoids intestacy rules. Which can be time consuming and expensive to sort out. In my case it took at least six months longer to sort out.
3. Wills can be written to help reduce the amount of Inheritance Tax the estate has to pay.
4. Means that it is easier not to use a solicitor for probate, which can be expensive.

They should have a will and would also strongly advise a financial and health lasting power of attorney. If your relative is ill in hospital and you do not have health LPA then the hospital will have to make decisions regarding treatment. If there is an LPA in place then the nominated person decides.

This is separate to a financial LPA. Make your parents aware that if they do not put in place a financial LPA while still healthy that it is not possible to do it once they become unable to make decisions. You as relatives would have to apply for deputyship which is a long and costly process.

no LPA

They do need a will but as long as they understand what may happen if they dont then its their choice
It will be a mess to sort out but sounds like your Dad doesn't care

How large is the estate and where are you? But yes without a will there is no guarantee it will all go to the surviving spouse

Thanks for all your replies. We're in Australia, so I know the legal system won't be the same, it was more about understanding the practical benefits of having a will for those of us left to deal with everything.

The estate is reasonably sized. Their house is jointly owned and worth around $3mil (£1.5mil) plus some savings/pension.

Df said he's writing a list of his affairs so we know what we're dealing with (bank account details, insurance policies etc) but it sounds like it would be challenging to act on it without a will and executor in place.

Just so your parents know what will happen to their estate

https://www.hughjames.com/app/uploads/2023/07/Intestacy-rules-flow-chart.pdf

Also there are issues around what happens if they need care & IHT which can be resolved through a will

I don't know about Australia but in the UK writing a will is as simple as writing down your wishes and getting two people to witness it. That's it. No need to pay anyone or register it, just write it, get it witnessed and then keep it somewhere safe.

Without a will, the estate doesn't automatically pass to the surviving spouse, only the first £322k does, the rest is split between DC, which if nothing else, may have inheritance tax implications.

It's not just a will, though. They should be giving you a list of all their bank accounts (not passwords) and phone, electricity, water etc providers, so that you can inform them if need be that they've died. As it stands, everything would go to you and your sibling when they both die, but unless you two do get on very well there could well be arguments about who gets what in terms of smaller items from their home. It's very unfair of them not to sort that out.

Good question OP.

I’m recently NC with my dad (awful abusive manipulator) and he used to try to use inheritance as a means to control me and my sibling (hence NC). The way he would talk about it, he’d have changed it 4/5 times over the years if he wasn’t happy with us, in will/out of will…

I’m wondering what happens if we can’t find a will? He’s not married and he supposedly names me and my sibling but again he’s knocked us out then added them out again so god knows what the latest one is?

What if you can’t find a will even if there is one?

I'm doing a will at the moment as an executor and I also did my PILs.

It's bloody hard enough and time consuming enough with a will in place.

They do need to make wills. It's very selfish of them not to.

As someone deal with the estate of someone who died intestate, get them a will. It is so much harder and more expensive without one.

I don't know the rules in Australia but, others have pointed out, without a will it isn't a given that the surviving partner inherits everything.

So tell them it will cost more or tell them their wishes won't necessarily be carried out, whichever you think will carry weight!

Everybody should have a will! I’ve had this battle with my own parents in the last year. My grandmother and great aunt died, neither with a will. My grandmother had four children, two of which were very grabby, sadly my mum and aunt decided they didn’t need their share and wrote them off to the same grabby sibling who ended up with 75% of the inheritance (life insurance, cash in the bank and any other payouts) plus the house and the other sibling got their original 25% with no share of the house so his % in real terms would’ve been much lower. My great aunt who had no children, her inheritance split was something none of us expected, where the lions share was split between her surviving sibling and one niece and a considerably lesser amount to my mum and her siblings who actually cared for her.

My parents felt that as there is only me and my one sibling, it’s obvious it would be 50/50, I asked them if mine and my siblings relationship meant less to them than some paperwork and a couple of hundred quid as they’ve seen the damage it caused between the grabby siblings who now no longer speak.

I dealt with my father's affairs without a will and it was quite straightforward. Having said that he didn't have a large value estate so everything went to my mother. And I'm in the UK where the rules will probably be different. There is a government website in the uk that tells you how to divide the estate in the case of intestacy - have a look to see if there is anything similar where you are.

Please ask them to sort out a will each (and POA). Having just dealt with the estate of a relative whose DP died first (neither had wills) the admin is problematic and HMRC are benefitting much more than their blended family of DC!

Are you sure? That may be the case in Scotland , but in England I think the remaining spouse gets everything, and when they die the allowances of both can be used, plus there is an allowance for the property, so, unless they are extremely wealthy, the children probably won’t be paying any inheritance tax.

OP - I think sadly most advice you are getting here is from people in the UK . Often Solicitors will have very informative sections on their websites setting out some of the relevant law so it would be worth you googling . With the kind of assets you are talking about I think a Will is very probably necessary and doesn’t need to be very complicated or expensive . I’d imagine a local solicitor would probably also come out to take their instructions at home