Advice to resist pressure for discharge of MIL to my home

[Weaktea]

I’ll try to be brief. I’ve cared for Mil at my home for 5 years. Now severe advanced dementia and stage 4 cancer, incontinence she’s 92. A recent fall has left her with a broken foot and she’s on day 9 in hospital.
she is now completely delirious but they have said medically fit and need to have a discharge plan. Would I have at her my house? I’ve said no. They Mentioned hospital bed downstairs, hoists and visits from carers.
she used to have a little
mobility so I could just about shower her but they don’t think she’ll regain mobility.

i was at the end of my tether anyway, they have said they will refer to social services which I welcomed.

what can I expect or push for?

thanks!

With regard to sided beds... yes the confused elderly person does try and often get out perhaps in the middle of the night resulted in horrific falls and injuries.

My DM had her rails down just for this reason. Didnt stop her trying to get out of bed but the fall wasnt so bad. My MIL had a broken hip a few years ago. She got out broken hip and all and the sides were up. She had a terrible fall that resulted in her having to go into a home.

I was told my the nurse that for some people the sides are better up in case they are asleep and roll over however its not 100% safe either way

Hopefully they're not allowed the same but when I was in this situation with DH, the hospital OT was wicked. They're clearly targeted to get people out as quickly as possible and at minimal cost.

He was completely bedbound, I had DC and was trying to keep my job so we'd have something to live on after his death and the guilt trip the put on me was just cruel. Obviously if I'd cared at all I'd have given up my job and brought him home, even though it took two people to do anyhting for him in the hospital and it was just me at home . I was "treatened" that if I didn't do it he'd have to go into a home, but that would have been better for him than home or hospital.

In the end they found a hospice place for him.

I think you just have to be firm and let the guilt wash over you, knowing you've done what you can. Keep saying it won't be a safe discharge (they seem to be scared of that) Is a hospice a possibility for her? Otherwise it should be a carehome.

You don't have to discuss. Or explain. Or justify.
'We don't want to do it anymore and we're not' is all you have to say.
On repeat.
And keep the doors locked.

You don't need to answer this question or any for that matter , you cannot meet her needs now so i suppose that alone could be deemed an answer as this situation would make her unsafe.
I am baffled at how ss expect untrained , knackered ,at the end of their tether often older themselves family members to take care of these poor old souls.
In my experiences the doctors were realistic it was definetly ss and social workers who were not ,obviously not all were the same but i felt that finances were more important than the human being at the heart of the problem was .

Definitely be careful about bed with side guards, they don’t do these anymore. My cousin came out of hospital earlier this year, with a bed supplied. Within a week she fell out of bed and was back in hospital. She has a hospital bed that can go down really low, so her DH has to put it as low as it can go and put cushions on the floor overnight. Also the hoist they supplied to get her out of bed won’t work on their plush carpet, there is talk about getting one fitted to the ceiling, but she hasn’t been out of bed for months now. They say if you have your relative home you will get support, but unfortunately when you need someone urgently, there’s never anyone at the end of the phone, so be aware.

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I was bullied into accepting discharge of friend's mum, had to reorganise house etc, it was hell. The hospital applied for continuing care but soemone who hadn't seen here countermanded it. But, luckily we have a very good local hospice who manage to get it for her last two days, and from the woman who came's face, we should havehad them much sooner. Have you got a local hospice?
I felt like a slave, with no rights. The discharge nurse faced me down as I was in tears, if I didn't have her she would be discharged to the streets. So I lost my study to the hospital bed. Which they reneged on and sent a divan whichshe wouldn't get into. Then we got the hospital bed.
No, no and again no.

I have to say the lower level of ss and the OT were great, and then the bean coounters got to them and all was repealed. The upper echelons deserve that SS, in runes.

I personally would not focus on being unable to provide the care anymore as they will country that with provision of careers 4 times a day to wash and dress her, change her pads and care for her as of she was living alone. I would focus on the fact that it is not her home and you are no longer willing to have her live there because of the dependence on you and your burn out.

You are not an unpaid 24 hour carer - because that’s what you will be. You won’t get a break. Potential incidents don’t conveniently stop in the evening so you can get a decent nights sleep.
SS/OT might provide equipment, but your house will cease to be an home and end up like an institution because your furniture will have to be moved to accommodate it. Sadly, it will be like coping with an adult sized new born baby again who is not going to get better, just worse and worse.

I know I’m painting a very depressing picture, but SS aren’t bothered about your mental and physical health. They just want your MIL off their watch and the problem solved , but you’ll be the one burnt out before you know it.

Everyone is so right. You don’t have to justify anything. The answer is no. You have every right to a life too, which if you don’t stand your ground, will be subsumed totally. Your priority is your own welfare and you need to look after yourself first and foremost. X

I'm with all the others:

"Let me be absolutely clear here as I don't want to waste my time.
We will not accept MiL to come back to live with us. The decision is made."

Broken record. Let them say whatever they like, and repeat the above as and when necessary.

And make sure any keys to your house MiL might have had are safely back with you!

Assuming MIL has no beneficial interest in the property, you can simply refuse to have her back. No further explanation needed except for 'we are not prepared to have her discharged back to our property'. Don't be cajoled into it, you have the upper hand while she is in hospital, you lose that if you allow her to be discharged to your home.

My aunt never recovered from dilerium which started in hospital after a minor fall. She spent the remaining 3 years in a care home where she was content. Oh, and they can quite easily get out of hospital beds if they want to (breaking her hip in the process did auntie)!!

Just don't even get into discussions about adaptations at home. Its irrelevant. I would question why you need to attend a discharge meeting when the only thing to discuss is continuing care or a nursing home. You might want to tell them that if they have nominated funded nursing homes you will visit them to consider best fit for MiL.

If you do go be prepared for the full reign of emotional blackmail and bullying. You need any points you make written down so you don't forget them in the stress and tell them you will be recording the meeting. If they do not want it recorded then they will need to reschedule and arrange a session which can be recorded.

Otherwise you will find MiL at home with wild promises of support which will never happen.

I would advise you against attending this meeting. You don't come across as tough enough to resist the pressure they will undoubtedly apply, to force you into solving this problem for them.

I agree. Refuse to attend and you won't be bullied into anything.

@Treaclewell thank you for sharing and sorry you went through that. Watching this thread and sending op strength.

Just say No

They think you're going to give up a room downstairs, put in a hospital bed, hoists, give up your holiday, act as an unpaid 24 hour carer....

Just say No.

I agree with previous PPs that if you can't be sure that you'll stay resolutely saying no in the face of bullying, then you shouldn't go to the meeting. If you do go, you've had good advice as to the mantra you must keep repeating. It's your home: there is no obligation to disrupt your home to accommodate her. Don't even engage in what adaptations could be made. And make sure MIL has no keys to your place (although I get the sense that it's unlikely that she would).

And definitely refuse any discharge, at any time of the day.

My mum acquired a head injury along with a broken pelvis on a cycling holiday in India. Once she'd got back to the UK, she still didn't understand she couldn't actually walk. Because they couldn't/wouldn't put the bedsides up, she kept on trying to get out of the bed (they'd had to take the cage on her pelvis off but she couldn't walk) so they moved her to the cubicle immediately opposite the nurses' station, so they could keep a closer eye on her. She still managed to fall out and break her jaw

Don't underestimate how quickly things can deteriorate - and once she's discharged, you won't get anywhere near the help that you need.

Same here for our stepdad, mum just overwhelmed and he needs nursing care. We involved social services. You cannot be forced to care. SS actually said to mum go and stay away from home - they cannot safely discharge to a home without a carer! Unsafe discharge.

He now has CHC funding, he is also stage 4 cancer, broken leg and MH issues (abusive). Don't feel bad, you have done plenty and there comes a point where its not sustainable or fair for you or the person needing proper nursing care.

Mum had commodes, bed downstairs the lot. It is all going back to medicare as she doesn't want any excuse for him to come home.

Good luck OP, it is hard. Often they discharge to a nursing home of your choice and do a 2 week assessment to look at needs.

They gave us a list of nursing homes but it was out of date. Can be hard to find a bed just have to keep ringing round.

A friend's mum? Why could the friend not deal with it?

Don't put forward suggestions and don't engage with their suggestions at all.

Have a range of responses that all focus on you no longer being able to keep her safe, cannot cope any longer.

Friend's mum was a hoarder, he shared her home, that's irrelevant. Also she was extremely difficult, would not let the SS see her bank account or agree to anything.
The SS, by the way, and this is why I came back, totally refused to have meetings recorded, wouldn't enter the house, as if they were vampires and I'd offered garlic. With the connivance of the carers I managed a discrete recording. Wish I'd done it for the meeting at which they claimed she and her son had agreed to a company providing care instead of them. Neither of them recalled it, but because it was in their notes I had a lovely afternoon ringing round for carers for two days time. They did provide a list. Generosity unbounded.
They are not your friends.

I don't understand why you got involved to the extent of taking in the friend's mum though. A lesson learned I think.

I've just been to my doctor's surgery to collect a prescription, and right in the middle of the waiting area was a huge display poster about 6 feet high on a stand, with a picture of a smiliing elderly person in a comfy armchair and the words 'There's No Place Like Home' in large letters at the top of the poster.

It's all very well them saying that, and telling the frail that they can stay at home and be cared for if they want to, but where does that leave the relatives?

As above, whatever they say to you, just say no, we are not accepting her back here and I don’t have to justify why. Please find alternative arrangements. To them you and her are just a number they need to discharge. Don’t ruin your life, say no

Maybe you wouldn't, but faced with a scenario in which a woman is hovered over a gas cooker on which she has dismantled the hob so that there is a flame a foot high, and she doesn't see a problem, when the son has called the fire brigade and the police and the doctors, who speak to her over the phone and determine she needs no help, he took her round to the surgery anyway and left her there while we went to the Sally Army and the Red Cross who both can only help if referred by a hospital, and nobody could help, I took her in temporarily while we explored further. Little did we think that there was no alternative, no charity, nothing. I believe there was some Tory who held that people must receive help from family and friends. So that was what I was dragooned into. Tory supported slavery.
So say no and stick to it. I was brought up to believe in helping people. That is what years of church indoctrination does, and it's not wrong, but it needs life support systems and they were subsumed into the NHS when it started, and then, by our lovely Tory governments, discontinued.
The CAB knows of no help in this area. "Next time she's in hospital, refuse to take her on discharge." Which would work with the nice humans in the CAB, but not with the robots in the hospital SS. I tried. Hence being browbeaten by a nurse while I was weeping.
No. And if the ambulance turns up anyway, turn it away. They have returned people to hospital if the receiving address is unsuitable, so I have been told by someone not involved..
Absolutely no.
And if the SS say she is registered with a doctor from that address, still say no and ask for their legal documentation which allows them to force - military word meaning to take over civilian homes for the army, stronger than billet - entry.
No.