Power of Attorney?

[jeremyb]

My mum has early onset Alzheimers (she's 80), and dad is worried that he won't be able to deal with her finances if she ends up going into hospital or a home.

She gets two pensions, one is from the Irish Government, one's a private pension from work and I think they get a combined OAP pension. She also has a current account in her own name.

Is a power of attorney going to be a good idea, and if so, how does it all work?

TIA

That would be the usual thing (giving everything to one another, and then on the second death, it goes to the three children).

If they're concerned about avoiding nursing home fees, obviously the above arrangement won't necessarily achieve that.

Mumblechum, can I ask you a quick question on competency? My parents are both alive, but dad is very frail and is fretting that he'll die soon.
Mum has dementia and finds it very hard to understand what people are saying and has pretty much lost the ability to understand anything written now. But if you asked if Cmot could make decisions, she'd probably say yes as thats the default word.
Would she be classified as without competency? I don't want to push them to do an LPA if it'll end up that she isn't.

So are you saying ..that if mum went before dad her 1/2 goes in trust for me and brothers and grandchildren...

And if dad needed care home they could only use 1/2 of the assets...well 1/2 of what was left ??

Eg house is £400,000

£200,000 goes into trust for us (because that is what she said in her will...and not pass it on to dad )

£200,000 is all that is left of dad's assets to put towards a care home ??

When dad dies we get the trust mum set up ?????

Hate talking about death /care homes/trusts ...but they worked soo hard their lives to leave us some money ....they would be gutted if I got this wrong

Wills are such an awwked thing to talk about in front of the "living"person and the "bank" person really did not want me in the room even though mum and dad said we need her (they really did not understand or in fact "want to understand "the jargoon)...they trust me.

CMOT, to be brutally frank, from your description of your mum, it doesn't sound as though she still has competency to make an LPA. The options for her, therefore, would be to try to ensure that your dad has access to all funds (eg so that he can pay for her expenses out of her pension), or if that isn't possible, he may have to make an application for Guardianship through the Office of the Public Guardian, which is a very cumbersome and expensive process.

I suggest that you see if you can get her to see a local solicitor who will make their own judgement about whether she still has capacity to make an LPA. If there's any doubt at all, they won't do it.

bizzey, that's exactly right. A life interest trust means that the surviving spouse doesn't inherit the deceased person's share in their jointly owned property, but they're allowed to live there until their death, remarriage, or voluntarily giving up the home.

I generally also include a portability clause so that if they move into a smaller house they can do so, and of course I take instructions about what would happen to any surplus arising from the sale and purchase; it could just go as a cash lump sum to the surviving spouse (and therefore be liable to care home fees), or be paid to the other beneficiaries at the point of sale and purchase.

Life interest trusts do cost more than standard wills because they're obviously more complex.

Thanks Mumblechum, I thought it might be that way. Dad does have access to all funds, so thats not an issue, but if/when he dies I'm going to have to deal with everything and I guess I'll have to apply for guardianship. But I will ask dad to make an appt to see their solicitor to check.

If doing a life interest trust in a will, it's crucial that the property is held as tenants in common, rather than joint tenants. Severing a joint tenancy and registering it at HMLR is fairly straightforward and I usually do that at the same time as writing the will with a life interest trust.

mumblechum1 can i ask, do i have to have Power of Attorney in place to have anything to do with my Dad's finances? Or can he just name me on the accounts?

He was diagnosed with Parkinsons 6 years ago and today is the first day that he's openly talked about. Until now he's prefered to keep all conversation light-hearted though obviously i get upates from my Mum.

Today we were talking on the phone and he's asked me to take on looking after some of his 'financial interests' in the event of something happening to him

He doesn't feel that Mum can cope with it as she's older than him and not at all computer savy.

OldBeanbagz, the advantage of an LPA is that it covers everything, not just bank accounts. So if either of your parents lost capacity, you would be able to deal with any enquiries such as with pension companies, utility suppliers, selling or buying shares, paying bills, selling property, etc. You'd have the same ability to deal with his finances as if they were your own, but always bearing in mind the doctrine that such actions must be in the donor (your dad, in this case)'s best interests.

Thanks mumblechum1!

Would both siblings normally have an LPA? My sisiter emigrated last year and is unlikely to ever return to the UK but i don't want her to feel left out of decision making.

Sometimes they are, sometimes not. Your parents could get around the problem of your sister not being around to sign every cheque etc by making the LPA on the basis that you can both act "jointly and separately". So either of you can sign docs etc.

You can't make an LPA if you've already lost capacity, Sinister.

The procedure is for you (or someone else in the family) to make an application for a guardianship order. This is a lengthy and expensive process and I strongly suggest that you seek legal help through the process.

SBM for what it's worth I wouldn't give up on LPA just yet. He may be a lot worse cognitively because he is in hospital and has other health problems going on. Is there evidence of an infection at the moment? It boils down to whether he will sign and whether a person in a position of trust and responsibility eg his GP will sign too. If his GP is sympathetic and feels you are acting in his best interests (and not to raid his bank account) then that's half the battle. With my Dad I'd say he was quite iffy by the time he signed and needed lots of reassurance. I stressed this did not remove any powers from him (that was very important) it just added some to me IN CASE I ever needed them. Then he was happy to sign.

Good, try and move fast, maybe make an appointment to see your dad s GP and outline the situation. Most GPs have experience of dementia and the stress it puts on families and try to be helpful. It is in your dad s interests that someone competent manages his finances.

Sinister, your Dad's application for an LPA has to be countersigned by a certificate provider who confirms that in their view, your dad understands the LPA and is not being pressured into it.

Given the circumstances, I suggest you get his GP to be the certificate provider.

I do a lot of LPAs and you really do have to be extremely careful to do it all above board.