Appeal on grounds of distance from school

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I have recently found out that my DD has not got a place at our first place school. We have decided to appeal (despite the LEA helpline suggesting we don't) on the grounds that we live closer to the school (0.27 miles)in comparison to the furthest child who has been alocated a space (0.29 miles). As you can see the numbers are very tight, but i just wondered if anyone has any experience of this or any pearls of wisdom they can pass our way for writing our appeal letter. Not been on Mumsnet before so hope I get some responses!!!

First of all you need to check what the priority order is for the different criteria for allocation. In our LEA distance is the lowest of the criteria, below fostered child, and child with siblings and child with social and medical reasons. If the furthest child is higher up on the list of priorities for some other reasons, then that child will get a place ahead of yours.

Secondly, you need to check whether they go by distance or by catchment. We've got some seriously odd catchment boundaries in our LEA, which mean that some children living in the same street as the school are out of catchment. The response of the LEA was that parents should have lobbied to change the catchment boundaries.

Thirdly, you need to check how they measure distance, as different LEAs may do this differently.

As Cory says, there isn't enough information here to tell if you have grounds for an appeal. Some LAs measure the straight line distance, some measure the shortest walking route. And being closer to the school doesn't necessarily make you a higher priority. Catchment areas can affect things. Also, some LAs make the distance criteria more complex so that, under some circumstances, a child who lives further from the school might validly be admitted before a child who lives closer. If we knew which LA was involved and your DD's age it might be possible to give some more advice.

If they have made a mistake, however, it would be a straightforward appeal. Indeed, if they admit that there has been a mistake you shouldn't even need to appeal - they should simply admit your DD.

Are the distances accurate - I mean, are you disputing accuracy as they are so close?

I do wonder if the software LA has used is that accurate? (Reason I ask is that my nearest school was advised as being 8.35 miles away according to the School route planner,..but it is in fact 8.8 miles (only one route!)

Are you absolutely sure the child who lives further away did in fact get in in that category? I guess you'd know if s/he was a sibling, but there may be some kind of special or medical need that you would have no idea of.

Dd and her bf both got into an out of catchment school some distance from our home, but both on pretty serious medical/social grounds.

My old LEA also did some calculation based on distance to alternative schools as it was a rural area and children in the middle of nowhere weren't close to any school. Hence you could live 3 miles from the school yet be higher priority than someone living next door to the school as there was another school 1 mile away in other direction but no nearer alternative for rural child....

Anyway, I guess the first thing is to be absolutely clear on criteria used and how it is applied. If it really has been applied incorrectly according to LEA criteria then I would think you have a strong case. Good luck!

We live nearer to dd's school (out of catchment) than the official catchment school. It does seem nuts that we can easily walk to the 'wrong' school but would have had to resort to the car to get to the 'right' one. That's catchments for you.

As others have said, you need to be sure that the 'farther out' child didn't trump yours for being, say, a sibling or having some sort of additional need.

I spied the man with the measuring wheel out and about and because I had a vested interest in his measuring technique (there were five out-of-catchment places at dd's school) I was eyeballing how accurate he was being. You could ask for a re-measuring of the distance if you are sure you are actually nearer than the other family.

We appealed on these grounds and we were offered a place in advance of the appeal. The LEA had failed to use the shortest route, there was a shortcut that they were unaware of.

Check the exact wording that the LA use. I do appeals for a LA and they use "safe walking route." They also go exactly from the front door of the child's house to the main school entrance. I've seen zoomed in maps that show that. Check exactly what they say.

You need to check the over-subscription criteria and ask what method was used to calculate home to school distance. Here in Lewisham it's 'as the crow flies' but some of the nearby boroughs use 'safe walking route'.

Don't rely on the distance calculators online; the LA will probably have used a complicated triangulation method. I had our home to school measurement checked (courtesy of my Dad who works in LA surveying - a different LA but had access to the same software) as the LA figure was a couple of hundred metres more than we'd calculated.

Thank you all very much for yourpositive and informative responces. It's all such a headache. We have checked the over subscription crieria and it could come down to distance. We have checked the distance on line and via x2 trundle wheels (after dark!!!!). Both of which state that we are under - just! We have tried to check the software/website the council used but used but is not available to jo publis and just diverts you to MultiMap. Our LA do it by safe walking routes rather than as the crow flies. Guess I just have to wait and see now. Fingers and toes crossed. Thanks everyone.

I also do appeals for a LEA. If you are challenging the LEA's measurement of distance, you can ask them to produce the map on which they have done the measurement. There's little point, though, doing your own measurement with a trundle wheel unless that is how the LEA measures - the distance between your home and the school has to be measured in the same way as every other application, otherwise a fair comparison can't be made between your application and the others. But do check that the software (if that's what they use) hasn't missed out any footpaths - I've also sat on appeals where the LEA hadn't actually identified the shortest safe walking route.

... assuming they use shortest safe walking route and not a straight line, that is.

Ok thanks. I will get in touch with the LEA to ask for a map.

Our LEA always provides the map with the papers for an appeal. I don't see why they couldn't provide it sooner.

I have a similar dispute. Was told by a rather abbraisive man working on the local schools helpline that we were 1.6 miles from the school of my choice and the person furthest away who got in was 1.5 miles. I have since measured it on their own OS interactive website (which carries the normal disclaimer) but I have also measured an OS map with a pair of Vernier calipers and both the measurements have come back as 1.06 miles. He told me that this issue could only be dealt with by appeal and refused to tell me how they had worked the distance out.

So I've appealed. We'll see what happens...

Their refusal to tell you how they worked out the distance could come back to bite them. If you ask the LA they should tell you the route they used (assuming they don't measure the straight line distance). A refusal to do so may indicate that they know they've made a mistake. If you are disputing the distance the LA will have to justify their measurement at the appeal. There will be a map with the papers for the appeal. If they have got the distance wrong that should be a straightforward win for you unless the guy on the helpline got both distances wrong and it should have been 1.06 and 1.05 miles.

Good luck.

Hi.I have recently had to not only appeal but do a separate letter to Head of Secondary Admissions of our neighbouring borough as they outlandishly miscalculated the distance from our house to our first(&only)choice. when I rang to find out where she was placed on the waiting list I was shocked she was down so low(73!)because her friend that lives on a road parallel to us slightly further up teh same high road but that HAS got traffic access to high road got in on the first go,no waiting list,(purely on distance no other grounds) and he is just a three minute walk up teh high road from our corner.I then asked what distance they had.They said 2.5miles.Again I was in shock as I had calculated a very accurate 1.95 miles using the googlepedometer map and a google map which you can choose walking or driving as opposed to alot of other maps that seem only to do driving.With such a wide discrepancy I enquired further. I did get a very heated reply."i have worked here for 16 years and blah blah blah...we use this method for everyone so you cant appeal using another method.everyone is judged on the same criteria its no use parents walking around with pedometers" So I asked her what roads they used(their criteria is safest shortes walking) The roads she was reading off to me were back roads and a road with no known name which turns out to be the local highway!!So I asked for the map.She hummed and hawwed but finally sent it to me via post.What I saw was insane.

They had NOT taken into consideration that though our road is blocked to traffic at the high road corner, it is still a pedestrian exit so hence my daughter would use that exit and then join the high road route which is the route these other kids who already got in take with that little bit added to our house.Rather, the route THEY used must be one calculated via driving and even so, it is a route that you cant even drive as it suggests you litearlly jump off a bridge onto the highway below!Its that or they do it manually and whoever did it didnt see that our road is connected to the high road.or what?thought the highway was a pedestrian pathway?i mean,theres no reasoning for it.
i immediately emailed the head of admissions and followed that up with the printed email and cover letter and sent copies of their map with a copy of the A-Z map showing how our road IS connected(it just has ballistrades with a key for the firemen).I followed it up with a phone call.She hadnt even read the emails or seen the letter.said that it might have just been delegated to one of her team.She said give them 10 days.She was not very nice or helpful but I did.I called yesterday and they said after putting me on hold as its obviously a contentious one,that I would have to please give them extra time as this case would need more than the normal 10 days it takes them to feedback(mind you we havent even gotten dates for our regular appeal hearings yet!this is a spearate issue for me).I dont know what to do now.Go to the papers?My MP?
I am appealing on distance and specialist status grounds at the official appeal whenever that is going to be but I felt as it affected her actual waiting list place that i had to pursue the distance error immediately.I just dont know who the next point of call would bne after head of admissions that doesnt seem to be doing anything.
Its really outrageous.I found out that another family are affected by one of these roads cut off to traffic butg that is still pedestrian and they didnt get in to the same school either.I believe they too are appealing.Why wouldnt they just use the straight line method!?less subjective it is,to quote Yoda.Any suggestions as to how I can apply more pressure to speed this up without making them cross in the office.Im too stressed to go all guns blazing.But at the same time,this is my daughters future.

I wouldn't do anything else right now. It depends on exactly what your LA's admissions criteria say about measuring distance but it sounds like you have excellent grounds for appeal. If you lodged the appeal 2 weeks ago it won't be long until the hearing. Go along with plenty of evidence (including photos) showing that there is a shorter route available and that the route used by the LA is rubbish. If can persuade the appeal panel that your 1.95 miles is accurate and the last person admitted to the school was in the same category as your child and lived more than 1.95 miles away you should win the appeal - if you haven't already got the information about the last child admitted that should be included in the information pack you receive before the appeal.

Also keep ringing them and chasing for an answer. If you can get an admission that they've made a mistake that will obviously help you hugely at the appeal.

Don't bother with your MP - you don't actually have one until next Friday! I don't think they are much help with admission cases anyway. Personally I wouldn't go to the papers - that can put the LA's backs up and make them defensive.

Hi I Have a similar appeal on the grounds of the distance criteria as my first choice school wasn't given and was allocated my second choice however that school is relocating to a new school site which is off equal distance only marginal difference to my first choice preference. I wanted to know if this is misleading and false calculation as the school is already erected and is coordinating move this January 2011.

I would appreciate any comments or insight about this

Cujey - For admissions this September distances should have been measured to the current location of the school, not its new location as it hasn't moved yet.

I am, in any case, not sure how you think this will help you. Even if they had got the distance to your second choice wrong, that is unlikely to have any bearing as to whether or not your child should have been admitted for your first choice. Most schools use distance from the school as the tie breaker. If that is the case, the most you are likely to prove in an argument about the distance to your second choice school is that your child shouldn't have got a place there. That won't give your child a place at your first choice school.

We live in Leeds. Where distance from school is a factor, the admissions criteria state that it will be measured in a straight line. Where straight line distance is mentioned, the admissions criteria say "see Note 5". Note 5 says "In Leeds we use a straight-line distance system. We use a national computer to run our school-admission system. As part of this system there is a program that measures the 'straight-line' distance' from the centre of the main school building to your home address. The point we measure to at your home address is determined by the Royal Mail Postcode Address file. This information provides us with coordinates for every dwelling. If we are not able to match your address with the Postcode Address File then we will use the centre of your dwelling."

Question: Presumably, as Leeds have specifically said that they will rely on a particular computer system to measure distance, then provided they have entered your postcode into the computer correctly, there would be no hope of challenging a decision based on distance, as the admissions policy effectively says that they will go by the computer program. Is that correct?

That is correct. Most of the computer systems used are very accurate, especially when talking about straight line distance.

Thanks admission!