Starting school full time - problems and concerns

[Tireless]

Has anybody else had experience of their children starting full time education when they had just turned four.

My daughter turned four at the end of august (last year) and then three weeks later started school. I believe this has had a dramatic effect on her behaviour, confidence and self esteem, she is clingy in the playground, rude to me (she was never this bad !!) and so unsure of herself around her classmates, some of whom are going to be six in september she is not even five until the end of august.
She seems so immature and young in comparison to some of the other children in her year. I wonder what the long term damage will be.

Does anybody share my concerns, or has anybody been in this situation before and found that it all works out in the end.???

tireless, it does all even out in the end but that is probably not much help to you just now.

my second daughter, whose birthday is in april, behaved just as you describe; but her younger brother, whose birthday is mid-july, sailed through.

she used to come out and hit me; he was happy as could be. it is as much personality as age and, honestly, as they get older it really does get better! he was not as good as her at writing etc (hopeless in fact) but it didn't bother him. and by 11 their abilities were similar - he was better at some things - it is awful at the time but try a) not to worry yourself too much and b) not to worry her.
if she comes out and tells you miserable stories try to rationalise them for her and make her feel better about any problems she's had; my younger son is 8 and he occasionally comes home and complains about friends, seeming on the verge of tears, but if i can explain how other people might be feeling it makes all the difference to him and he cheers up.

if you feel negative she will pick up on it so try not to!

Janh I agree that personality rather than age may have alot to do with my daughter settling in to school.

Her social and mixing skills are not yet fine tuned enough for her to form good relationships with the other children. e.g. she stuggles to take turns and listen to other peoples ideas in the playground.
These are all things we are working on at home, but i wonder if anyone has any other tried and tested ideas about helping your child to mix successfully with others, i think what she really needs is ways to develop her confidence, any thoughts ????

What about an after school activity, or a Saturday morning activity like dance class, trampolining or even a martial art? Something she will enjoy learning and have the opportunity to mix with other children outside of the school environment?

As the mother of a little boy born in late August '99 I am reading all this with great interest. It's hard to think that in just over 2 years he's going to be out in the big wide world of school. He's got a busy agenda ahead, too. Learning to speak properly, potty training, using a knife and fork, ... My older son, born in April settled into school so well that I'm unprepared for problems in this department. Fingers crossed for younger son.

I have two 'summer born' children, but we are fortunate to live in an area where they don't start school until the term after they are five. In some areas my son would be starting school this September, when he would be only just four. I would be completely horrified at the prospect, as he is not ready for formal education, let alone full days of it. (Don't get me wrong, he is bright, and is learning loads now, I just wouldn't want him in a classroom yet). (Here - Oxfordshire - he won't go until September 2002, a whole year later).

You don't have to send them at four, you know. As long as the school is not oversubscribed, they would still be offered a place when they are five. Has anyone done this?

tireless, she actually sounds a lot like my second daughter (now 16, gets on well with loads of people, full of confidence). we had a very full social life pre-school, but i expected her to be like her elder sister and run off and join in, while she wanted to sit on my lap all the time, so i was always trying to GET her to run off and join in which, with hindsight, wasn't the best thing to do.

emmam's idea of an out of school activity is good; most little girls love dancing classes, any of those around you? what does she like doing already? is she keen on physical activities? succeeding at anything does do a lot for them so you need to choose something she will enjoy and have a good chance of being good at. does she like swimming? could she start swimming classes before she's 5? are there any gym clubs?

she will improve with age anyway. you can try to give her strategies for coping in the playground but small children aren't generally good at remembering what you've discussed when they're in the thick of a disagreement...is there a child she particularly likes? have you had anybody home for tea yet? you can help reinforce relationships that way...maybe for you too.

I'm an August baby too, 1967! I always struggled at school unfortunately and everyone was older than me and everyone was on holiday when it was my birthday moan, moan.

I was very conscious of dates when I was trying to get pregnant and now have March and November children.

Is there any way you could hang on to her until next September and then she'd be the oldest? It might be worth looking into.

My husband's birthday is on 1st September and during his school years he was put up a year.

rhiannon, MY husband's birthday is 1st september and he was put up a year too!

very bright children still can go up a year but - round here anyway - only if their birthday falls between sept 1 and feb 29. seems a bit unfair...(never been an issue for us though!)

Janh, I share your concern about 4 yr olds starting school. My daughters are a lot older than my son, and none of them started until after their 5th birthday. My son was 4 and 5 months, but luckily he was born on April 2, so by two days missed going full-time from the start. (He did a term of mornings only). Is your daughter having to attend for 5 full days? Perhaps you could negotiate with the school if she is, and arrange for her to build up gradually to a full week. Even on half days, my boisterous, energetic son was exhausted and crabby.
There has been a lot of publicity about research that suggests that nothing is gained, in terms of later academic achievement, by starting children's formal education so early. School classes don't have to have as high an adult:child ratio as nurseries and playgroups. Schools started taking four year olds a few years ago in order to receive their nursery vouchers, ie to boost their income. Not the most child-centred of reasons! Schools have certainly altered the early years curriculum to accommodate the younger children, but is it the best place for a 4 year old to be? What do others think?

mooma, my own opinion is that all primary schools should have a proper nursery class in which the rising fives would stay until both parents and staff agree that they are ready for reception, which could be at any age from just 4 up depending on the child. unfortunately that is not going to happen in the foreseeable future!

in lancashire they have started at rising 5 since before my 19-yr-old was in reception; though our school did at that time start the sept-febs in sept, and the mar-augs in january. the following year they all went in in sept, and have ever since, but that was partly because of the size of the intake and a reorganisation of classes.

my youngest is now 8 and in Y3, and the reception teacher who taught all mine has now retired, so i imagine things are done differently, but certainly when mine were that young there was little formal teaching and much more time was spent on civilising and organising, educational games, nursery-type activities etc. it was a very good system. the more academic ones (not necessarily the eldest) did more writing and reading, because they wanted to; and they didn't HAVE to go in for full days right away, though the teacher preferred it if they did, from the point of view of developing relationships with everybody.

tigermoth, i wouldn't assume that your august boy will have problems any more than the older one did...and second and subsequent children often do settle in even better because they are familiar with the set-up and sometimes can't wait to go! it's certainly important that they can do all the practical things before they start on academic stuff.

We are the only European country to start formal education at the age of 4. Personally I think it is too young. Most other countries it is 5 at least, usually 6 or even 7. School years are a long time and childhood is so short. Besides kids can learn at home. Indeed formal education in any form is not compulsory - you can homeschool your child throughout their whole education.

I don't feel that my 4 year old is ready for full-time school in September. However, he won't go full-time until myself and the school agree he is ready. Also, his nursery can only offer two afternoons a week - at least at school he'll get 5 half days, and still nursery type curriculum. I also think that we shouldn't send children to school until they are 6 or 7, like most of our European neighbours. Their children are ahead of us academically in every way, yet successive governments insist on keeping the starting age young, whilst ditching out of providing decent, free nursery education for all pre-school children, if their parents want it. Lots of parents want their children to enter school early, I once knew someone who sent their barely 2 year old to full-time private nursery (attached to a private school) because they wanted her to enter the education system as "early as possible"!!!!!! I had to scrape my jaw of the floor!

I agree with everyone else about raising the age children start school. It's pretty depressing that they all seem to have to start in the September of their allotted year as well. When I started school, I turned five during the Easter holidays and went to school the following term. But that was in the laid back nineteen seventies.

My daughter is still 3, but she will soon be going on visits to her new school, she will be 4 at end July. I personally think it is too young, 4.5 seems about right, so if they had 2 intakes it would be ok. Unfortunately, although we can now ask for her to start in Jan, if the school has filled all its places she won't get in (and its a very popular school. Also, if all the other kids start in September, she will miss out on the socialising that goes on. I have had to reduce my hours at work from 3 days to 2, because I know she won't be able to cope with after school club til 6:00 3 nights when she is at school all week. She does go to nursery for 3 full days, but we chill out on Thurs & Fri.
She is a second child, and I think in that respect she is much better able to cope with the school setup than she would be if she were the first, because she sees big sister going & having a great time. I just worry that she is soon going to be in a situation where she has to do the same as kids nearly 12 months older. My eldest only started last Sept, as her birthday is Oct, so I can very clearly see the difference in abilities that 10 months makes.
I also firmly believe that one of the major problems with early intakes is that is disadvantages boys quite significantly. Most boys do not mature as rapidly as girls in the skills most used in school, ie communication, siiting still, manual dexterity. This is not to say that they are any less able, just that biologically there is quite a difference up until they are about 6 (dredging back through my Psychology degree). Therefore, the earlier you start boys, the less likely they are to be able to keep up with the girls, the more likely they are to decide in the first few years to 'switch off'. I think this is proven by the fact that boys are now achieving less than girls academically, when they are probably the ones to start earlier.
Sorry to drift on, but I do feel strongly about this one.
Oh, and does anyone think that the main reason for starting children at school early is so the government will be under less presuure to help working parents?? After all, costs go down considerably when the children start school.

debsb, going back many many years children in this country have started school in the academic year in which they turn 5 - the difference is only a few months now from what it was 50 years ago, and possibly less political than practical.
changing over to a model more on the scandinavian line, for instance, would be deeply unpopular with many parents and very difficult to implement...and in america, although their "first grade" is age 6-7, they have usually been in organised kindergarten and pre-school for the 2 years before that. and their academic standards are even worse than ours!

incidentally, for what it's worth, we have a selective grammar school here, and at my kids' primary school for the last 3 years the boys have outperformed the girls in the entrance exam...so they haven't been switched off!

Janh, I started school the September after I turned 5, as did all my sisters. It wasn't that long ago, in the sixties. We weren't unusual, all the kids I knew were actually 5 when they started school. When did it change to reception classes? Also, you still don't legally have to send your child to school until they are actually 5, but they would have to go straight into Year 1. There has definately been a change to earlier starting in the last 30 years.

Tireless,
My daugher will be 5 at the end of July. I can hardly believe that she has been at school for nearly a whole year already.
Before she started I was very worried about her for two reasons. Firstly she was useless at practical things, like getting dressed, going to the toilet without getting her knickers wet etc. Secondly, at playgroup she played mainly on her own and didn't seem ready to make friends with other children her own age.
However, I needn't have worried. She LOVES school and has made loads of friends. Her friends help her when she gets stuck with practical things, and she is not afraid to ask the teacher either. She seems very confidant and is learning lots too.
So, I don't think you can necessarily tell whether it will work or not. It probably depends a lot on the school, class size and attitude of the teachers. She is in a small class (13) and no one expects her to behave 'older' than she is.

My Daughter Was 4 on August the 24th and began school in September, she was more than ready and we had no problems at all. I think it depends upon the child as my 2 year old is a different thing altogether and i am anticipating lots of tears and clasping of legs on her first day at school. My eldest was ahead in her reading and behind in her writing for a while, i found from chatting to other mums that her peers were much the same (differing skills and abilities) whatever their age. Hopes this helps!

sporty - exactly! agree with you completely. it depends entirely on the child and they spurt about at different rates for different activities - my 8 yr old was one of the first to tell the time but still can't tie his shoelaces (thank heavens for velcro!)

having witnessed many many infants christmas plays and sports days i only remember seeing one child in pieces and that was purely because a parent who'd promised to come hadn't arrived...they all have their moments of distress at school but the age they started at doesn't have much to do with it. personalities and parental attitudes make much more difference. this is the way it is - be positive - talk it up - don't give them anxieties or reinforce any they try out on you. if they think you think they can cope then generally they will...

In NSW (Australia) children can not start school unless they turn 5 before 30 April (school year starts in January). It is recommended that children who will not turn 5 until after the school year has started do not start school until the following year. In QLD they start school earlier.

My SIL (who has a masters in education - specialising in 0-12 years) is strongly against children starting school too early, and especially boys starting before 5, she would prefer all boys start school after they turn 6. Apparently there is actually a large body of research in this area (none of which I, personally have read), most of which indicates that starting school later is beneficial to children's general development. In fact my SIL stresses that children who do not start any formal education until the age of 8 are usually at the same academic level by age 9 as those who started school at 5!

Just thought you may find this interesting in light of the current topic.

I'm sure it's true that expecting children to sit down and do formal lessons too young is a bad idea. But if the school allows a lot of free play at the beginning, then it doesn't have to be all bad.
As I said earlier, I was worried about my daughter starting school so young. But now I realise that in fact she's spent most of the reception year doing the same sort of things as she would have done at playgroup. But she's done it in the school setting, which has made her familiar with it, and has given her a great enthusiasm which I hope will carry her forward when real work begins.

I think with my daughter, it is not necessarily
the academics or concentration that she finds
difficult; but just the sheer tiredness of full time school.
As her first school year comes to an end i can see she is just exausted, she is asleep at night by 6.30 - 7.00pm, she cries easily, she worries about all sorts of things,
I personally cannot wait for the school holidays so she can just be a happy four year old playing with her dolls and running around outside letting off steam, not tied to a desk for five hours a day !!

tireless, if she is stuck at a desk for 5 hours a day then there is something wrong with the way the class/school is run.

Going back to Rhiannon's message (can you keep her back to start the next year, as though she were a September baby) how do schools know what the true age of your child is? I have never had to provide proof of age of any of my 3 children when they started school. If I were to shift a child's birthday from 25 August to 5 September, how would they know?