Boy who turns 4 this coming August, MUST he start school? HV says so!!

[luckymummy]

I am asking for another MNetter who is finding this difficult to talk about. Her son will be 4 in August. She is concerned about him being so young in his year, plus he has just been referred by the HV for speech therapy (not at the parents' instigation, but HV thinks his speech may be behind). The mother suffers from bouts of agoraphobia, and she has had trouble getting her son to preschool... she (mother) knows she has to do deal with the agoraphobia, but she is trying to decide what's best for her son separate from that. The preschool says the boy is bright and thinks he would probably be ok to start school in September.

Thing is, the HV is adament that this boy "has to" start school, like it's absolutely, cast-iron, no exceptions, no choices, he MUST START. I thought that there was no legal requirement until first term after a child's 5th birthday... is there a link on the web somewhere for that?

The mother is feeling pressured and hassled which makes it all the harder to decide what's best for her son. HV is threatening to involve social services to make sure the boy gets to school every day.

TIA.

I agree with Clary. Reception is about more than learning to read and write - it's about being in a big group (25 plus) of your peers and learning to interact, learn together, be in the classroom with less adult attention than at nursery, manage lunchtimes and playtimes...the list goes on. Children can start the term they are five but it gives summer born children very little time to adapt to a completely different environment before they get into year one which is much more demanding academically than reception. My ds's school really advises against it for this reason, plus children who start later have disadvantages because friendship groups have often been established. Our system is than younger children go mornings only until the term they turn five and I think that works really well.

But I am totally horrified at this bullying health visitor - can your friend refuse to see her or ask for a different one?

As a Scot, the English system with a "reception" class seems weird.

We only have one intake - straight into what we call Primary 1 - in August and normally for all the kids who turned 5 since beginning of March that year (might be february - but ds is a September baby, so I know he'll be in the "middle" of the year). SO if you held back your child 'cos you felt he/she wasn' ready yet, then the following year he would start in Primary 1 - and not be "jumped" up into Primary 2. It seems stupid, as the poor child wouldn't have covered what the other kids had covered, and would always be playing catch up - which is the very thing you were trying to avoid! Let alone the social considerations!

As far as Luckymummy's friend is concerned - no, her child doesn't need to go to school until he is older. And it is not up to the HV to bully her. It sounds like the realtionship has broken down completely and she should ask for different HV to support her.

Now it might be that her ds is ready to start school - which is very different thing to "having" to start school. But she is now not going to trust what the HV says.

I would advise her to go to her ds' pre-school and ask what they think - not just about whether he is bright enough, but is he ready yet socially and behaviourly? What do they mean by "porbably" be ok to start? Ask what they think about him spening another year in pre-school. Go tothe Pimary School and ask what their approach is to those kids that are held back.

It is often the case that boys in particular can benefit from being held back - they are often not mature enough either socially or behaviourly at 4. I know of someone who was the youngest in his year who would probably have benefitted from being held back as suffered for most of his school life from not being as mature as his peers and may have got better results if he had been held back. (not that exam results matter in the long run).

If she doesn't want to visit - maybe they would advise her over the phone.

If the advcie she is given is that it is in her ds' best interests to go this year (and something tells me it is not as clear cut as this), then she shold go to her GP (not her HV if it is still the same one) and as him/her for advcie on how to deal with her agoraphobia/referral to counselling, so that she can then be there for her son.

Ds is a summer birthday too (June) - he could leave off starting school for a whole year, BUT the school wouldn't hold a place for him, and he also wouldn't have a preschool place, which isn't really a workable choice, so he will start in the September. It sounds like he'll be ok - reception is a 'playing' year I think anyway, because the children are all at different ages and stages - some have been in full time nursery and some won't have even been to preschool.HTH!

My dd was 4years and 3 weeks old when she started school and I too was very worried, and asked the school if she could go part-time and they said if she was very tired by end of week to just bring her for the mornings on thurs and fri, however she loved it and was fine and she went full-time straight away with no problems.
I think not wanting your child to start school so young is more about us not wanting them to go rather than the children not being able to cope.
If the school is a good one they will listen to your concerns and try to help and reassure you about such a young child as my dd reception teacher did. Reception class is not too different to pre-school especially in the first term.
If I had held my daughter back a year she would have had to gone straight into year 1 where a place for her at the school of our choice could not be guaranteed and she would have had to go into a class with children who already knew each other and were used to the school routine which I felt would have been harder for her than starting with everyone else.
I hope your friend can sort this out and I hope her HV can be more understanding.

Ah yes feelingold, you are right I think about us not wanting the babies to grow up rather than them not being able to cope!
In fact agree with yr whole post!
Also wanted to add in support of luckymummy's friend that the HV does sound rather aggressive and unsupportive.

Just one point to add. My dd does not go to pre-school but I know several children who do and they follow the early years curriculum now so if the child is going to pre-school I wouldn;t worry too much about him being behind.

Where I live the schools just have one September intake and the children go full time after a couple of weeks. I really think that for "some" children that is too much.

Just the fact that this mother does manage to send her son to pre-school at all given her agoraphobia is an immense achievement and I realy think more effort should be spent on her rather than all these scare tactics.

My ds1 went straight into yr1 aged 5+2 months, and it worked well for him. He had a lot to cope with at first with the discipline, structure, and formality of school. But within about a term he was well settled.

I wish ds2 could have done the same (also a summer birthday). But the school was oversubscribed and could not guarantee him a place, and the local nurseries/pre-schools will not accept children who are of reception school-age.

Having said all that "academically" it's impossible to choose between them (ds2 is now at the end of yr1), so I'm not sure the different experiences for reception year are that important in the long-run.

Message withdrawn

Apart from offering advice and info (sic), this isn't actually the HV's responsibility, or business, is it?

roisin (hello btw!) that?s really interesting about your two as I am certainly talking from a position of no experience in this area, ie my ds1 started in January after he was 4 alogn with a lot of other summer children; now it?s all one intake here so summer-born dd will start in Sept and we shall have to see how she does.

I too have an August boy who will be starting school at just 4. Dh and I have decided to 'see how he goes' they start part time in DS school anyway for a month or so.

Interestingly with our local authority, they will hold your place until the summer term but if you fail to start you have to re-apply. Then you miss reception and go straight in at year 1.

Your friend needn't start her DS at school straight away in September, she has up until the summer term which is (I think) after Easter, which would give a bit more breathing space. But whatever she decides, she needs to sort out a place at school now. Most of the admissions are being sorted right this second. Could you have a look on your county councils website and find out the info there about starting etc.

I'm not sure why the HV is being so demanding about this and giving wrong info.

Furball - or anyone who knows - if you have a place in the September, but don't take it up until after Easter, does the school get the money for the child for the whole year? What happens to the attendance figures?

Sorry Roisin, I have no idea.

I'm bloody minded, but I'd write the HV a letter of complaint. Giving mothers false information about when children should go to school is well outside her remit. What else does she tell this poor mother? That any mother not using talcum powder gets sent to prison? I personally would never go back to her.

Message withdrawn

What is this bloody HV on? Firstly, it's none of her business when he starts school - the education sector will advise her when school is legally necessary.
Secondly - why is she involving social services? What is her concern for this child - if he's already getting to pre-school then he is getting the socialisation and preparation for school he needs. And if she gets him to pre-school why wouldn't she get him to school. As far as I am aware it's not a requirement until after their fifth birthday. Many children start in the term after their 4th birthday but not all do and it is certainly not set in stone - if it's not appropriate for him to start school in September then the education people will not expect him to be there.

BTW - I am a HV too and have never considered it part of my job to tell parents when their child should or should not start school. I think this HV is overstepping the mark.

Can I just say my dd who is the youngest in her year (dob being 31st August) and also has special needs/communication difficulties, which are speech and language based (and is in a unit attached to a ms school). Well we were really worried about her starting in reception at 4 years and 4 months and also the fact that had she been born 24 hours later she would be in the year below.
It has worked out really well in the fact that dd is very academic and would be very bored being in Reception now (as she is in year 1, aged 5yrs 8months). However due to her age and sn emotionally and socially she finds it hard.
It's so hard to know what to do for the best isn't it?

How to get HV off this mother's back.

Tell your friend that the HV is required to offer a service - she is not obliged to accept it. In other words the HV has no legal right to enter her home, offer advice and information, insist that this mum sees her. Your friend need never see her again if she doesn't want to. If she'd like a health visitor I'd suggest putting the problems with this HV in writing to the community manager and asking for a new one.

Mandy

Have only skimmed the thread but I think the HV needs reporting, it's awful to threaten someone like this and, as many people have said, she's wrong anyway! Does this mother have someone who can go with her when she tells the HV this, or who can be with her to be firm with nasty hv if needs be? I think sometimes having a 3rd party there can make all the difference.

I am an early years teacher and have a late august baby due to start this september. It is legal to keep the child back a year, and it depends on where you live whether the child enters at reception or year 1. I think most people would rather their child start in a play-based environment and would therefore prefer their child to enter at reception. - The only problem IS...It is a legal requirement that you sit GCSEs in the academic year you turn 16 - and I think in the vast majority of areas children have to move to secondary school at 11. Therfeore, the "missed" year has to be made up at some point - which could be even harder than starting school early. However, I am only speaking about my own experiences as a teacher - other people might be able to correct me!

Megi - surely not, what happens if they don't want to sit GCSEs or have been ill and required a lot of time off? BTW I am on Scotland and find the whole reception/year 1 thing v. confusing

luckymummy, I hope she is well and I hope she's continuing to improve!

There's no legal requirement - has she found out if he can start part time? That's what happens at our school - my dd (who will be 5 in August this year) has only just started doing full time school this term. It has benefitted her tremendously, starting when she did though.

In a very minor defence of the HV, I imagine she thinks your friend is not wanting him to start school because of her agoraphobia. I wonder whether it might be worth getting someone to visit the HV with your friend to get her point across. I would also request another HV - in fact, if this child is her eldest, I cannot see why she even needs a HV especially as she has a therapist helping her through her problems. It's not like she's trying to run away from them - she's getting help &the little one is at pre-school.

Its not a legal requirement to sit GCSE's at age 16, (I took Maths at age 15) but the league tables only look at students results from that year.

There are often cases where children don't take their GCSE's but later re-sit them at a local FE college or in the 6th form.

Aloha - Are you able to give any references to the disadvantages of starting school early? I'm worried about my 3 year old starting school this September (June birthday)