12 kids per Reception class - is this too few?!

[spookyspoons]

I have enquired at a private boys' prep school in Surrey for reception entry next September. They said that they normally have 3 classes but that due to 'a low birthrate' there will only be 2 classes of 12 in each class!

I know it's great to have a high ratio of teachers to students, but might this be too low?! Could it be too pressured having so much attention on you?! Each class of 12 would have a full time teacher AND classroom assistant! I guess I am also thinking of friendship dynamics - making friends, getting away from kids you don't like etc, in such a close environment.

Any of you in the school system already, with any thoughts, please share!

12 kids sounds great! There'll be 24 at least at playtime. My little village primary had small classes and if it's what you have you just get used to it. It's not too close, as a teacher I'd have loved to have had just 12 kids and a TA.

I think 12, with two teachers, would be great. My dd's go to a small school - dd2 is in the Infants class which has 9 in reception, 10 in Year 1 and 5 in year 2. The TA usually takes the reception and the remaining 14 go with the teacher. When I've been in the classroom, the number of children feels about right, but another adult would be better.

With regard to friendship dynamics, again, 14 x 2 should be fine. My dd1's having problems with this at the moment - there's only 3 girls in year 3 (which is never a good number with girls anyway!) and she doesn't get on with the other two - well, not that she doesn't get on with them, she just doesn't get on with them IYSWIM.

I think it sounds lovely, go for it!

We have 38 kids in the whole school and about 4/5 per year group, on the whole it works the only draw back is when kids fall out there can be less chances for them to make friends elsewhere. Our school is like a little family we know everyone really well.

Whereabouts in Surrey if you don't mind me asking? Most schools seem over-subscribed.

We have, on average, 15 children per reception class each year.

Works well, and it was one of the things that helped us to decide which school to apply for way back when.

I taught a class of 12 and to be honest, I found it too intense. Friendships were either all consuming, or hideously broken. I seemed to spend an inordinate amount of time sorting out problems between friendship groups. You're also right that there was nowhere to hide! Every child had so much one-to-one attention, that minor bad behaviour was very obvious.

The upside was that I could hear every child read every day.

A class of 20 is my ideal number.

Wow, that was fast! Thanks all. Very helpful already.

The school is in The Good Schools Guide. It's in West Horsley. So you can probably guess which school it is! Sandyballs do you think they are telling the truth re low birth rate or perhaps they are cloaking low numbers in those terms?! I am thinking of calling the education people at Surrey Council to ask about the low birth rate thing, as it seems a bit odd!

I was in classes of 20 at primary and it seemed great. 30 in the state system, which is our current alternative, just sounds like too many for such a young age.

DS1 is someone who is not easily pushed into doing things, and likes to hang back and suss things out from afar. At nursery school his teachers tell me he is very comfortable moving about between the various activities, really exercising his choice as to what he does, making a considered decision. If stickers are being given out etc he's never a child clamouring at the front for one, he hangs right back and waits til the end. He's only 3.5 years so it's hard to know what kind of environment would suit him!

The year that is now Year 1 was a high birth rate - 9/11 babies apparently. Means that friends of mine struggled to get first choice places at schools.

My ds started in reception this term. 13 x 2 classes. Works fine as they do some class activities together and play together so my ds has friends in both classes. Teacher plus TA too (private). They also are in the same part of the school as the year 1s so my ds seems to have friends in that year as well.

Another private school near us has very small class sizes - 6. I know of parents who ended up removing their children as they simply didn't have enough of the same year group to play with.

I would be concerned about the low birthrate comment. My private secondary went from 6 classes of 20 to 4 classes of 20 because it was rubbish.

There are 13 in DD1's year at school and it's fine. 7 girls and 5 boys so quite a good mix. They mix well between the years in a small school as well so DD often has Yr 2 children home to play.

Thanks. We know someone whose son was there a year ago and have excellent reports about it, and he's just gone on to a top secondary school.

Could it really have gone down the pan that quickly?! We will be new to the area so it's going to be hard to get an insider opinion that does not involve the school itself. And it's kind of hard asking current parents: who's going to say that they're forking out 10K a year on a bad school?!

There are 10 kids in dd's state primary class atm, will double in January when the summer borns enter reception. I was astounded by this thought there would be 30 from the get go for some reason, although it won't make that much difference, morning/afternoon nursery and reception all occupy the same space so the children are familiar with each other.

Was also astounded that all the staff seemed to know every child/parent etc, went to receptionist to pay something or other for the first time and she didn't even ask for dd's name, really odd lol.

Maybe it is still a good school but there simply aren't enough people who can afford to pay for it atm. If they are 12 pupils down then they are down £120000 which will have an impact. I just don't believe that the birthrate has dropped that dramatically.

I really dont see what your problem is.
If only all children were in class sizes that size, things would definitely be different!

Count yourself lucky, as well as your ds.

As long as they do stuff as a year (24 children) as well as in the class - and ideally mix the classes around and do some ability-based streaming at a later stage (not reception) then it sounds great.

DS was in a class of 15 in reception, grew to 17 by end of Y1 (school policy max of 16) so they split the year and now have 2 classes - one of 10, one of 11 - streams, PE etc as a year group - it seems to be working well so far.

I took DS2 out of a class of 12, partly (though not wholly) because the class was just too small. The teacher attention was great, the social side was a nightmare - there were only 55 in the whole school.

BUT, I think it there had been 2 classes of 12 it would have been the ideal situation - you would get the benefits of small teaching ratios as well as more opportunities for friendships.

I think 12 is too few. My kids are in a state school with around 25 children in a class. That's seems about right to me. Big enough so you don't get ganging up on the left-out kid, enough for square peg kids to find a soulmate, good all round,

To LittleFish's comments earlier - all very valid, and all reasons why you need to understand how the school manage it.

When splitting DS's year in two, the head (also the Y1 class teacher) did a lot of social engineering to split 'over-dependant' friendships up and otherwise balance the classes.

These are the sort of questions I would be asking IIWY.

The max in most indie reception classes is 15 and it's only 3 shy of that. TBH you'll probably pick up others on the way who move into the area etc.I suspect numbers are low due tho the economy rather than anything untoward but you'll need to ask around. Also may be worth findong how many are in the upper years - if they're full then no problem. If they're half empty you know summat's up.
Small classes are imho one of the main reasons to pay. The kids get a lot of attention and the teachers get to know each pupil very intimately.

Should also add that since there's a two class intake you'll probably find they do drama, sport, music etc in mixed groups.
And there'll still be more than enough kids to have a choir, orchestra sports teams ( a and b) AS THEY GET OLDER.

I think that I know the school of which you speak, and have to say that I'm surprised that numbers are so low. I do know that different years have different peaks, and I guess that combined with credit crunch will have an impact. I know that the dcs school used to be historically a 2 form entry in preprep but grew partly to a decline in popularity of a competitor but mainly due to 2 working parent families who were used to paying huge nursery bills and just carried on with the expense into schooling. The latter are now probably more likely to look at state first.

IME the boys will mix at playtime anyway so you will have 24 boys in the mix. My main concern would be regarding the mix of the boys. At the dcs school there is a large group of cousins who have obviously known each other since infancy and spend a lot of time together which makes it harder for them to be inclusive. It might also be worth enquiring as to how many of the 24 have older siblings at the school. Again ime it is easier to make friends with those who don't already have their diaries fixed around their older siblings.

I suspect that you will find that boys will be added to the class. Parents who were uncertain as to the benefits of private schooling sometimes change their mind after the first term or so.

Personally I wouldn't be that concerned about the low numbers, though that said this is probably the smallest size I would be comfortable with. I would however check out with the local state schools to see if the "low birth rate" comment is valid. My youngest is currently in Year 1 and I can totally verify that that year is particularly oversubscribed in both state and private sector locally.

Our reception class (state primary) has 15, which sounds good, but actually my dds have found sometimse when they are in the smaller classes that it's been a bit harder to make friends or have your own little group socially.

Because we've moved school several times the dds have been in classes which range between 15 and 30, and for them, they have actually often seemed happier in the bigger classes.

I know there are advantages to small classes, but I can also see the advantages of bigger classes in some ways.

I think thought that there is a difference between mixed and single sex groups in terms of friendship. As children tend towards same sex friendship groups they will have already reduced their pool of potential friends anyway. [Disclaimer, before you all jump in with "my ds's best friend is a girl": appreciate that not all children go for same-sex friendships, but there is a tendancy, and presumably the op is happy with that given she is looking at a single sex school].

Just to put the other side, my dd's friend went to a tiny prep school, and she's loving being in a class of 30 at Secondary school. She said the problem was that there were only 4 other girls in her class of 12 at prep, and it was very easy to fall out with the other 4 and have no-one to turn to.

DS is in reception at an independent school - class has 14 but there are two classes which means that he has lots to play with at break time. He loves this class and when I saw his teacher's observation folder on him I was astounded by how much detail there was and how well she already knows his character.

I used to teach in the State system and I would have loved to have this number of children. I have always wondered why children who go to independent school seem so confident when speaking and now I see why. DS has two classroom assistants so has a ratio of 1:5 adults to children - he has proper conversations with the adults in his class and he gets many opportunities to speak in front of the class.
When I now think of my class of 30 with their hands up to answer a question it makes me a little sad that I was unable to give them the same level of attention.

FWIW - DS's school normally has 3 reception classes but they are down to 2 this year. I think in the current climate people are reluctant to enter into the independent system if they may not be able to continue.