Teachers and education system bias towards girls

[asdmumandteacher]

What do you all think? I am a teacher (secondary) of 14 years and feel the secondary curriculum (and primary too) is heavily weighted towards girls' natural skills and less so to boys' skills. I have taught all girls for most of the last 14 years in selective (grammar)and high schools (the equivalent of secondary moderns) and i have two sons. We are forever hearing about girls outperforming boys (when in O level days twas the other way around and the 1967 Plowden report sort to redress the balance) I think it has gone way too far in the other direction.

We have all acknowledged the complexity. And I have said about 50,000 times that white, working class boys are the group most likely to leave school with no qualifications and that the figures and headlines mask differences between social class and ethnicity. I also agree that underachievement needs to be tackled generally and specifically.

However, there must be specific reasons that account for the disparity between the academic achievement of boys and girls (attitudes and perceptions as much as or more than innate differnces). Exploring these and finding solutions is likely to prove beneficial for all of us: boys, girls, men, women, teachers.

Not as simple as bringing in a few more male teachers but this would help.

The fact that men don't want or don't feel able to teach (primary) and their absence both REFLECTS and CREATES precisely the sort of attitude that means boys are more likely to value educational achievement less than girls.

It reflects and creates an attitude that education is for women.

Yes, I agree.

I have said its way more complex than slinging male teachers in all along - i just added that as a wish list to improve the future for all of us - i couldn't be arsed to finish my wish list as the AEN School Action question popped into my head and i became distracted...one of my 'fluffier' moments

Woooo hooo!!! We agree on something! Yay!!!!

(well, I agree with fivecandles second post. But I still don't think there is a huge gender issue. sorry)

See, I hate all the blue for boys/pink for girls too, but surely teachers doing as Heated's post is pandering to those same stereotypes rather than listening to the true needs of the individual (some typically masculine, some typically feminine, lots in between). That's why I get so cross.

Must leave this thread - agree to disagree/agree, whatever.

Sorry, don't get how you can think that there's not much of a problem

'Government figures show only 15% of white working class boys in England got five good GCSEs including maths and English last year. '

figures show only 15% of white working class boys in England got five good GCSEs including maths and English last year.

4/5 of permanent exclusions are boys

www.poverty.org.uk/16/index.shtml

'New statistics on the gender of those with special needs reveal for the first time that 64% are boys and 36% girls.

The gender gap is even wider in the most severe cases - those with formal "statements" of need: 72% are boys and 28% girls.

The figures dwarf the gap of a few percentage points between boys' and girls' exam performance which has caused so much consternation.

Experts say the reasons are unclear but that - controversially - a large factor might be teachers' perceptions of what constitutes problematic behaviour. '

news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/education/2525017.stm

Fivecandles, my big issue here is that you talk about the lack of male teachers (which has shown to have no effect on boys' achievement btw) but how on earth can that be fault of female teachers who are accused by the OP of having a 'bias towards girls'? Are female teacher trying to keep out male teachers? Are male teachers paid less than female teachers? Are male teachers fired when they get married? All these things were real barriers to women getting into the teaching profession. There are no female-made barriers against men joining the profession.
The argument is if the disparity exists in a minority of boys before school and after school, then it is not likely to be caused by school, therefore it is reasonable to look at causes for the possible underachievement of some boys OUT of school, and stop talking about 'fluffy' classrooms and other misogynist stuff.

Sorry, but I think stuff like "Boys... don't take pleasure in crafting a beautiful piece of written work" strikes me as sexist and reductive and dangerous. Frankly, I don't want people who think in this stereotypical way teaching our son, any more than I'd want a teacher saying 'girls don't really cope well with facts' teaching our daughters.
I think Dickins, Donne, Wordsworth, Kundera, Amis pere et fils, Faulks, Spenser, Shakespeare, Hardy, Maupassant etc etc etc all took a fair bit of pride in crafting a beautiful piece of written work.
I believe this sort of stereotyping, the increasing blue and pinking of the world, the emphasis on difference and the belief that REAL men/boys don't read/think/have emotions/talk/feel and girls don't do facts/think logically/get to the point is a MASSIVE part of the problem. Far more important than pastel colours and home corners.

aaargh DickENS. fast typing on my lap in front of telly.

You're either not reading or not understanding my posts mabanana. The only person who says any of this is anyone's FAULT (especially female teachers OF WHICH BOTH I AND ASD ARE 2) as opposed to a result of very complex relationships between attitudes, perceptions, steotypes and interactions ) is you.

Bizarre!

Absolutely bizarre that you should equate concern about boys' (under)achievement and wanting to see more men in the classroom with misogyny.

Does the fact that I would like to see more women in parliament also make me a philogynist (man hater)???

'I believe this sort of stereotyping, the increasing blue and pinking of the world, the emphasis on difference and the belief that REAL men/boys don't read/think/have emotions/talk/feel and girls don't do facts/think logically/get to the point is a MASSIVE part of the problem. '

mabanana I really think you need to read our posts more carefully. I absolutely agree. This is what I've been saying. I am precisely against any sort of gender stereotyping in and outside of the classroom. I have actually said this explicity a few hundred times.

Actually, no, I agree, some teachers/decision makers do see colour or gender before the individual. Yes, we had a greater proportion of black boys in the PRU. Arguably, not all of them should have been excluded and some should have been joined by the white boys they fought. But let's be honest, those teachers are crap.

But surely, a ton of media articles and gender policies just reinforces the idea that boys and girls are somehow different and should be treated as such? Can't we ignore it and focus on ways to include and raise expectations of boys and girls?

Yes, fivecandles, I believe you are arguing a slightly different point.

Wholeheartedly agree with raising expectations of boys and girls and treating individuals as individuals.

But it is wrong to dismiss teachers who are prejudiced as 'crap' and to say let's just forget about gender.

Although we might loathe and despise it gender stereotypes are hugely influential for all of us and since we're talking about teenaged boys for them and although we might not like to admit it or be aware of it we all have prejudices which need to be considered and challenged.

Conforming to gender stereotypes and fitting in is a huge, huge pressure for teenagers and leads to all sorts of anxiety and undesirable behaviour in schools.

The girl who doesn't shave her legs and hasn't got a boyfriend. The boy who reads books and hates football can have their lives made a misery by their peers.

To suggest that anyone who is influenced by prejudices and stereotypes is evil or stupid etc is incredibly unconstructive.

Oh, maybe I am too idealist - so shoot me.

There have been a ton of comments on this thread saying education is sexist because:
There are too many female teachers
Female teachers create fluffy' classrooms with 'too many pastel colours' which apparently harm boys.
That boys don't like to discuss texts or emotions
That boys don't like reading
That teachers should allow 'rebellious' behaviour and running about in the classroom as this is what boys do.
That (female) teachers show a bias towards girls (and therefore against boys)
That boys like fact and girls like opinions.

This is sexist thinking, and is part of the problem, not the solution. Boys and girls get told all day that X or Y is not a suitable colour/activity/career for them, they don't need to hear it from teachers and it makes me very sad that they will get those pernicious, damaging messages at school, which should be a haven from them.

I don't say it is anyone's fault, as you well know, as I don't think there is a 'fault' in the classroom. I have not accused the entire female teaching profession of - and I quote - a 'bias towards girls'.

I have to say, I have not seen this attitude in my children's schools, thank god. I am shocked to see it in teachers and parents on Mumsnet.

Fivecandles, you are making such good points but are sadly getting nowhere.

And Mabanana is making some great points that people are choosing to ignore:

"Boys and girls get told all day that X or Y is not a suitable colour/activity/career for them, they don't need to hear it from teachers and it makes me very sad that they will get those pernicious, damaging messages at school, which should be a haven from them."

ITA. That is the issue in a nutshell and no-one is responding to that point.

mabanana - how thick do you think teachers are? Its a HIDDEN attitude fgs - unconscious not teachers saying "Ok boys use blue and girls use pink" I find your comments so patronising to our profession

FC - do your daughters attend an independent primary school that used to be an all girls school? I can't say that I recognise any of the features from your DD's school in either of the Primary schools my DD has attended. There are all sorts of extra curricular clubs to suit all types of children and there is no home corner (a farm shop, a dentists, a Post Office yes) nor sticker system that is divided by boy and girls colours.

I do get your point that a presence of males in schools would help to give boys that need the idea that learning and education are for them but there are other ways to provide those types of role models for boys - having in speakers and workshops - which I believe schools do. And outside of school, boys have the opportunity to see that learning and education lead to employment.

I do not agree at all that male teachers would somehow allow boys to behave differently in their classroom. That was not my experience at primary school or Secondary school and I know my DH (Secondary School teacher)expects the same behaviour from the girls and boys in his classes.