Teachers and education system bias towards girls

[asdmumandteacher]

What do you all think? I am a teacher (secondary) of 14 years and feel the secondary curriculum (and primary too) is heavily weighted towards girls' natural skills and less so to boys' skills. I have taught all girls for most of the last 14 years in selective (grammar)and high schools (the equivalent of secondary moderns) and i have two sons. We are forever hearing about girls outperforming boys (when in O level days twas the other way around and the 1967 Plowden report sort to redress the balance) I think it has gone way too far in the other direction.

What we 'know' is that some boys aren't doing well in school, and that some boys have never done well in school whatever the teaching/examination method.

It appears to be a tenet of faith that the current problem is the result of an 'overfeminised' approach. But faith without evidence. You know in your hearts that these things are true...fine, but short of a Damascene conversion the rest of us seem determined to remain sceptics and unbelievers.

Well, my husband and I are both teachers and haven't really seen a marked difference in the average girl and boy. I guess some boys are less mature...

I could see the 'primary teachers shouldn't all be female' thing if we were all the same, but surely teachers will have differing degrees of masculinity/feminity, and different likes and dislikes, some will be more arty, some more Science based - that's because we are all individuals, not gender defined. Jeez, we show boys on the BBC news that they are underachieving, hoodie -wearing, role model-lacking thickos and then act all 'well, what shall we do' because some of them play into it. Ignore it. Treat the boys in your class you think can't access the curriculum, as if they are entirely capable of accessing the curriculum and just as 'advantaged' as the girls (that is what differentiation is for). Expect/Pretend they are behaving well - and you know what, kids play into that instead. Agh, have got all angry again. BUt as a teacher of totally labelled 'underachieving' boys (secondary PRu in Hackney) - kids find it so much easier to fit into the box you give them.

God, it's depressing thinking my son and daughter will be taught by teachers who think that girls have it easy .

And the idea that boys are immature is a very powerful cultural stereotype too. Look at the number of posts on MN which talk about how all men 'never grow up, really' 'are just like having more kids' and 'can't be expected' to do basic household tasks. Boys aren't expected to be able to read or to do stuff that requires dexterity.

I agree. Some boys are very immature, but so are some girls. It does seem, well, rather arbitury to divide things up according to gender... People are different of course, but why gender?

I do not think girls have it easier - its not a question of who has it easier, that doesn't come into it.

What is 'a culture of bias which is in built into todays education system where average girls stand a much better chance of achieving the higher grades than average boys ' if not having it easier? If the average girl (allegedly) does better than the average boy, she's got it easier than he has. By definition.

And I do think it's a shame if my children are seen by colour, gender, language spoken instead of who they actually are.

You've repeatedly said that the system favours girls over boys.

And yes, that does make me boil on behalf of my beautiful daughters. Their vaginas given them a leg-up, you know (god, what a disturbing mixed metaphor there), they're not doing well or anything, not compared to real boys.

Sorry gotta go teach my lovely ladies will be back later.

Agreed mi, and so glad it's not just me who rages at this. Don't think I've ever been so angry about a thread. It's just, so, so, frustrating!

What are you angry about exactly? Do you think the sexes are equal intellectually?

Sorry but I still don't quite get what you're angry about although I have read and read.

It seems to me (please, please correct if I've got this wrong) that you are angry because other people (like me) say that there is something in the education system that is making boys achieve less well than girls.

The way I see it is this.

The fact is boys are achieving less well than girls.
If they are in general equal intellectually this shouldn't be the case.
Therefore there is something in the education system causing this.

Am I right in thinking you disagree with the original premise (that boys are achieving less well) and that you think it is all an issue of perception due to some kind of innate (and wrong) belief system that boys ought to be doing better than girls. So the fact is NOT there, and it is merely a perception.

Have I got that right, is that what you think?

Yes, I do think they're equal. Of course I do. Actually I don't think the sexes have some genetically programmed reason for learning differently or in different ways. I do fully acknowledge that a proportion of boys continue to do badly in formal education, even though the system has been changed from the formal one under which far more girls than boys succeeded at 11 plus level. If I didn't think the sexes were equal, I'd conclude that boys are just thick because they don't seem apparently to do well either then or now (you could perfectly well have constructed an argument whereby later-maturing boys needed a more Motherly Presence and Guidance in the classroom, not to speak of far less formal pressure to produce Results, frankly).

I resent the suggestion, as I've said before, that my daughters' ability to do reasonably well at school is only because the school favours them.

And given that neither sort of education system appears to work well for boys, and given the wider social and cultural attitudes to education, learning, and Manliness, I think the problem probably lies to a great extent outside the classroom.

So the question becomes: how do we, as a society, convince boys that learning is not UnManly and that education is quite interesting and useful?

My quarrel, and I think it is shared with a number of poeple, is with the idea there is some over-feminising bias within the system as it stands.

Of course, we could just return to the previous one, and watch girls do better there, if you like.

And finally yes, I do have a problem with thinking of an area of prejudice against boys when we live in such a gendered bloody society in which far too many of us are expected to do the housework.

Hurray to the boys who did manage to achieve as much as the girls. They must have worked so much harder than the girls to get there

So you do think they are not achieving as they should, but that has nothing to do with what goes on inside the classroom? It's all to do with societal attitudes?

Some posters have said that there really isn't a difference in levels of achievement, it is just a perception, and a ten per cent gap is not significant.

I'm saying that the studies cited here suggest that boys don't actually do better with different learning styles or more male teachers.

And that boys didn't do well before, either.

AND if education is considered 'gay' and boys are scared to be seen reading in case they're thought of as 'gay', where does the fault lie? I for one would love to have more great big butch gay blokes in the staffroom, providing marvellous camp role models, but is that homophobia the school's fault?

Well, actually, I think if 10 per cent of girls weren't doing as well as they should there wouldn't be nearly as much attention on it, frankly. Be treated as PC Gone Mad if we analysed it.

I pointed out what the actual figures of a 10% gap may look like to one individual school - 10 to 15 boys per school year, depending on the size of the year group. Those numbers could easily be accounted for by the cohort of perfectly-capable pupils who are more interested in retaining an anti-school image and do not put in enough effort, reported to exist more keenly amongst boys in each school.

mi provides the most intelligent, coherent and cosistent argument of the lot. SPot on.

Yes she does and I can't see why people still aren't getting it.