arabella weir on why we must send our kids to state schools

[nowirehangers]

Arabella on why she would never send her kids to private schools
What do people think?
Fwiw I find the tone unbelievably smug. I also disagree with a lot of what's being said. I don't think all parents send thier kids to private schools so they can avoid the great unwashed, though some do. I would love my dcs to go to a state school for the reasons she mentions.
What puts me off is the fact the teaching is so often mediocre - as the Chief Inspector of Schools admitted this week. Of course there are so incredible teachers in the state system but I fear there are a lot of second-rate one too. I went to a state primary where the teaching was awful then was moved in to a private school and couldn't believe how much more stimulating the atmosphere was and how much more inspirational the teachers were. I dislike the idea of my dcs mixing only with posh kids, so I'm going to put mye experience down as an unlucky one and give the local state school the benefit of the doubt but if I feel they're being taught badly I will remove them and remortgage the house or whatever to make it work. Anyway, that's my opinion, interested in others.

I agree with sobernow, Arabella Weir made some good points, I did think of mumsnet when I read it , social responsibility is a good thing surely. Not everyone sends their children to private schools for these reasons, but I don't think they do it for the greater good.... whether that is right or wrong?

In our area if you want a mixed class with children of all races and colours then you pay. If you want state schools chosen by house price which are white or black schools then you go for the state/state- religious school option. That's a bit of a generalisation but she's wrong about the mixing point. 94% of parents choose state schools and most don't have any option as they earn the average wage of £20k or less. So it's a bit of a non point for most people.

Those of us who were privately educated and do the same for our children (my 2 siblings and I and the 9 cousins of the next generation) all have our own reasons for preferring it. Most of us know all the various reasons for it. AW will certainly find other mothers with biger bottoms and more fat in the state sector I suppose and shw was the one who wrote the book - does my bum look too big or something and of course she uses the word bum because she went to a state school and wouldn't say bottom I imagine. You get what you pay for.

ha ha! Earlier this evening I thought that Xenia must have fallen off a mountain or something if she wasn't here sneering at the common folk.

"...of course she uses the word bum because she went to a state school and wouldn't say bottom I imagine. You get what you pay for..."

yes, Xenia you are a good example of someone who has had a great deal of money spent on her education and yet still turned out appallingly vulgar and startlingly declasse.

I would ask for a refund, personally. Money can't actually buy you class, it seems.

My daughter has just started reception in a state school in the middle of Brixton. Which is obviously very diverse in many ways. Race wise she is in the minority as a white child (one of 3 in the class). However as discussed diversity is not just about race. I know that several parents from her nursery went private as they were 'worried about their child being the only white face in a class of black children' (as Arabells described in her article), I had to bite my tongue when discussing it and seeing the look of sympathy on their faces. We did not have the choice of private education but I am confident that i would not have taken that route. My daughter is already embracing the culture of the school and I believe as Arabella does that this will give her a fantastic grounding in life. you will never achieve this social diversity in a private school. I am sure that this schools demographics will start to change as it is gaining a reputation and has has had an outstanding ofsted report. Considering the soial problems in the local area I see this as an indicator that the teachers must be incredible. It is a shame that many middle class parents will only take the plunge when the school starts to look different ( and I am not talking about shabby buildings!!)

Message withdrawn

Had she not called the book "Does my bum look big in this?", capitalising on the power of recognition from the character she played on television, she would almost certainly have (1) not got the publishing deal in the first place (let's face it, she was almost certainly approached to write a book of that title without regard to subject matter) and (2) sold far fewer copies.

I would have thought, Xenia, that you would have been in favour of a woman increasing her earning power so that she can be financially independent, provide for her children herself, and so forth. On other threads you've suggested that posters should think of ideas to make more money (with some staggeringly impractical suggestions); interesting that you consider using the word "bum" in print to be beyond the pale as a means of income generation...

(ET meaning Emma Thompson, rather than E.T.; I rather imagine that E.T. would say bottom rather than bum, although as much of his vocabulary is learned from American pre-teens perhaps it would be butt?)

I was only joking. She can use the word bum if she wants to.

Why should she consider a private school if she can afford it?

The educational standards are better and the teaching is therefore if you don't choose it you're in essence kicking your child in the teeth simply so you have more money to spend on holidays and shoes. It's like buying a Macdonald's meal when you could buy the child healthy food.

Because it saves the state money so is the morally right choice.

Because her daughters will have fewer life chances and do worse.

Loads of other reasons. She says she likes the fact they feel comfortable on home turf walking across the rough estates near by without fear. I can't really see why just because they go to the local state primary they gain some kind of protection from crime int he local area as if there were some sort of we look after our own principle displayed by the local thugs who in general stab their own rather than stab outsiders. Obviously it's given them confidence to walk home. My sons walk home alone from their local private school without fear and go out alone to, albeit in outer not inner London. I think giving children confidence to be out on the streets is not something state school children are uniquely given.

As for mixing with other cultures in my daughter's class at Haberdashers there were only two children with 4 English grand parents (one of whom was she). Obviously most children have family who pay but aside from that those very academic private schools in cities are very mixed in other terms and that's great. Her suggestion that you need a very rough local primary in inner London to give your child some halo award for mixing with children whose colour isn't white is just not correct in cities anyway.

But let's see what she does when her girls of 9 and 10 or whatever age they are move into secondary schools which tends to be when inner London parents make some kind of break with the local sink schools but of course by then they've already damaged their children's educational possibilities irretrievably as they are so far behind.

Mimzan - it may be that way in Primary - I teach secondary, and the TAs were there for the specific students, and not all of them. If they hadn't spent the lesson dealing with that child, especially those that couldn't read or write, nothing would have been taught, as some of these students had EBDs as well, and spent time kicking off during lessons and disrupting others. By the time they get to secondary, there is no 'stigma' to having a TA specifically with you. It helps the students with their social skills and they have an adult to break down the task for them into chunks they can cope with. This is not possible for a teacher to do without a TA, and 30+ other students of mixed abilities in the class, as you have to get round them all.

The language issue is a problem for those who can't read/write English fluently if they are in secondary and in a GCSE class!

I guess also it depends on the demographic of where you are, as to the racial mix you get. I taught in rural Cornwall in a comp of 1400, with 1 mixed parentage lass, and a couple of Bulgarians. The racial mix just isn't there, although the social mix went from professional parents to those not in work.

The school my lad is in now goes from kindergarten to sixth form, about 1400 students in total, and 62 different nationalities, which is standard for Brussels, as NATO and the EU is here, and many companies have offices here as well. My son is experiencing more diversity here than he would had we stayed in the UK.

I chose to send him to prep in the UK, rather than the village school, as I wanted to avoid SATS and a prescribed curriculum. I also wanted him to do sport every afternoon and enjoy learning. I would either have tried to get him into grammar for secondary, or paid again for private schooling, as I don't like the National Curriculum - it doesn't allow time for delving into what is interesting and is supposed to be taught with an element of political correctness.

I would also have wanted him to do IGCSEs as they are more rigorous academically than the current GCSEs (I am a GCSE examiner and have just seen the new syllabus for my subject - all the difficult bits taken out), so I do feel able to comment.

The decision to go private for us not taken on 'class' grounds, but as a teacher with a child who I know would coast and get lost/avoid the teachers gaze in a large comp. Private education gives small class sizes and therefore more awareness as a teacher what is going on with your students. You can target them more effectively and raise their game. If the state system could achieve this, and more children in deprived areas were coming out of primaries able to read and write, then state education would improve. The bottom line for me however, is that while I have a choice, I will send my son to a school which achieves 80%+ A*-C at GCSE, rather than the 54% achieved by the state schools local to me were I in the UK.

yes, Xenia, I forgot how extraordinarily hilarious it is to make fun of common people.
it is warped, not to say illogical, to think that perpetuating elitism is "morally the right choice".
honestly, love: get a refund.

Why do some posters think it is OK to make personal attacks on Xenia? I have seen it time and time again. It's not on. I'm sure she doesn't need me to speak up for her, she is more than capable of looking out for herself, but she is flesh and blood you know, not a MN produced random generator of opposing view points.

Yes, harpsichordcarrier, in this instance, I mean you.

The majority of people in this country who send their children to state school do not do so because of some great moral stance about wanting their child to mix with the widest possible group of society (insert other "moral" argument against private education here), they do so because it is the norm and have not considered privately educating(by applying for scholarships) or because they have no other choice.

Our local (CofE) village primary is lovely but all the state secondary schools it feeds into (which incidentally are all further away from my house than the private one I intend to send DS to) are shite. I'm sorry that state education is in such disarray but I have no intention of mucking around wth 5 or 7 short years of my son's life to try and make a moral stand about it.

I think it's one of those areas that's full of sweeping generalisations, personally.

some state schools are rubbish.

you know what, some private schools are rubbish, too! just because you pay for it does not mean it's better, that's just an illusion.

I have four siblings. Four of us went to three different private schools. We all got good academic achievements, but you know what? I was the only one who was happy at my school and really enjoyed my years in education. My two sisters were pretty miserable, and my brother was so miserable that he's still in therapy about it.

What happened to the fifth sibling? She stayed at home and went to the local state school. Same level of academic achievement, but did she have a better time? Was she happier? I'm not sure, really. Neither is she.

It's about a lot more than whether your child gets good GCSEs. Your child needs to be happy wherever they are, otherwise all the A*s and Oxbridge entrances won't make up for the fact that they're miserable as sin.

Unfortunately Xenia does serve to perpetuate the myth that private school kids are thoughtless and thick. My sons go to an independent school and I'd be ashamed and depressed if they abused their privilege a la Xenia.

Georgimama - Xenia is no more a person than Arabella Weir, is she? Live by the sword and all that.

I applaud Harpsichordcarrier's eloquent post.

Oh it's the whole 'group selection' palava. Only unredeemed communists still beleive in this surely. Get with the programme Arabella, plueese

No she isn't anymore a person that Arabella Weir(what a strange thought, can you be more of a person?) but I wasn't making personal attacks on AW so I don't really see your point.

I can't see much evidence on this thread for the claim that everyone who goes to state school is inclusive, sharing, caring and thoroughly right on. There are lots and lots of prejudices on show here, just the other way round.

Georgiemama. Xenia (in almost every post she makes) insults those who are state educated (93% of the population), suggesting they are inferior and doomed to a lesser life.

God, like we should listen to what she thinks.

Because she's been on telly, and eveything

Has Xenia been on the telly??

Oh, sorry, just clicked, you mean Arabella Weir.

"My ten year old daughter now walks home alone from school with a classmate."

Well, with grammar like that, it's obvious you never went to a private school, Arabella.

and

Everything

Obvious I never went to a private school either!

I find it fascinating, the way so-called 'liberals' think it's only right that people should make their own choices in life, as long as those choices are ones they deem to be correct.

God, you can slag anyone off in the Guardian, as long as they're rich and/or middle class.

If only everyone could just attend to their own sheep and stop fiddling around with everyone else's.

So there, Arabella bloody Weir, who gets paid shedloads to sit on her arse on her Habitat couch moaning about holidays or whatever else.

I suppose she spends those in Butlins, because let's face it, how else are we going to raise the standards of the old-fashioned British holiday, if middle class parents shun crap holiday camps, in favour of nice warm holidays abroad?

as usual, this thread has turned into nitpicking and personal remarks and dissections of people's spelling and grammar.

I thought Arabella Weir made some interesting points, regardless of whether she's been on the telly or whether I find her funny. I don't agree with all of them, but it's food for thought.

Just as Xenia's posts are often food for thought, even if I don't agree with them.