arabella weir on why we must send our kids to state schools

[nowirehangers]

Arabella on why she would never send her kids to private schools
What do people think?
Fwiw I find the tone unbelievably smug. I also disagree with a lot of what's being said. I don't think all parents send thier kids to private schools so they can avoid the great unwashed, though some do. I would love my dcs to go to a state school for the reasons she mentions.
What puts me off is the fact the teaching is so often mediocre - as the Chief Inspector of Schools admitted this week. Of course there are so incredible teachers in the state system but I fear there are a lot of second-rate one too. I went to a state primary where the teaching was awful then was moved in to a private school and couldn't believe how much more stimulating the atmosphere was and how much more inspirational the teachers were. I dislike the idea of my dcs mixing only with posh kids, so I'm going to put mye experience down as an unlucky one and give the local state school the benefit of the doubt but if I feel they're being taught badly I will remove them and remortgage the house or whatever to make it work. Anyway, that's my opinion, interested in others.

Lol Olive Oil
What tabloid hell do these people live in when they imagine little Johnny creeeping through a big bad council estate?

and I also don't see that all private schools produce brats either

lots of generalising going on

but I don't think I can bear to read all the thread, sorry!

I was sent to a rubbish comprehensive as my parents believed in the state system. I had a miserable time, a rubbish education and was bullied for being posh. I have never forgiven them.

Blimey
I posted the OP in a tearing hurry on way out of the door yesterday, hence numerous typos (obviously privately educated ). Come back to mn today to find an mn hornet's nest smashed open. Again.
Am just going to whisper - grammar schools. If they still existed everywhere so much of this debate would be redundant. I know they are not an ideal solution but so much better than the current situation where disruptive pupils, second-class teachers, stupid government initiatives can drag so many schools down to the lowest possible common denominator.
Mrs Mattie - why do you think posh white kids are going naturally to do better? Why not posh black kids or posh Asian kids? IME posh white kids are often the dimmest of the dim and the schools that exist to cater to them, usually public boarding schools, are the kinds I abhor. Good private days schools have plenty of Asian, Chinese and black pupils and many pupils are not posh, their parents sacrifice a lot to send them there. The point is these children are MOTIVATED and, unlike in some state schools, will not be made to feel like outcasts for wanting to study. If they were all forced to go into the state system perhaps that ethos of stigmatising the studious would change but as many have said it is a big perhaps and unproven.
Litchick said a lot of people leave their voluntary jobs when they realise their well-meant input is making bugger all difference. The same is true of teaching. A lot of excellent teachers leave the state sector (just like initially idealistic doctors leave the nhs) for private driven out by disruptive pupils, red tape and an "all must have prizes" culture that celebrates mediocrity. If you want to find these teachers in droves look in the private system (and yes, of course there are crap private schools but you don't need to be Einstein to work out which they are and avoid them). Like I said before, of course there are great teachers in state schools but not nearly enough to make a difference to most pupils' lives

"oh I do so tire of people going on about mixing with different people, like it is a box to tick "oooh so multicultural" etc

it is SUCH a cliche" - it isn;t such a cliche if you childrne aren;t white. WOuld hate for DS to be the only non-white child in a school. Also not a cliche if you want your childrne to grow up friends (as opposed to just seeing) with children of all races and cultures.

Its not the only reaosn I would pick a school but it would influence me.

I wasn't suggesting the Nordic system would work here QS - but smallwhitecat asked for evidence for my opinion that I thought it would be better if there were no private schools, so I offered an example of where it does work well.

I agree, the UK is ridden with social inequality and divisiveness, and were we to try and make the Nordic system work, we would have to make some radical cultural changes. But there's no harm in having an ideal, even if you recognise that that it's probably not achievable in your own lifetime?

pigleto

Yes I would send my children to a state grammar school if one were available. They'd miss out a bit on the sports side but that's something you can sort out through joining clubs etc.

At my SIL's school, there are more children with ASBOs than go to university. Massively high levels of disruption matched by massively low levels of academic attainment. There is no way on god's earth that I would ever send my children there.

True Fio
Thought of this because I was speaking to a botox doctor the other day, asked him how he justified his medical training ending up being directed into jabbing needles into WAG's brows in a clinic in Knightsbridge
He said it troubled him a lot and ideally he'd balance his practice with a day a week on a peckham estate (didn't notice him rushing off to do so, though . But he also said he and so many of his colleagues were just so disillusioned with the nhs and the red tape, they couldn't stand it any more.
To be clear, he didn't win me round in any way, but interesting. And it informed my sweeping generalisation on doctors probably in much the same way a couple of random conversations Arabella's had have informed her opinions on private school pupils

I couldn't give a toss what colour or race the children are at school, nor who they make friends with

some posts on MN go on as if it some badge of honour that little Marmaduke has a 'lovely polish friend' as if it is somehow worthy and aren't they just so openminded to the world [boak]

same as if they mix with children from a council estate, oooooh aliens!

you see academic selection, ie grammar schools I have no problem with. but private schools who select academically also select financially, iyswim, unless you are very lucky and get one of the very few bursaries or scholarships available.

so we're talking rich and bright, rather than just rich.

it's interesting that independent schools have been frequently threatened with the removal of their charitable status (and associated tax breaks), unless they can show that they do have some charitable aims.

there were some interesting letters on the subject here

I really mind about school being mixed racially/socially/culturally.

A Sino-American friend of mine was forced co-erced by her very bourgeois Parisian PILs into sending her children to a Catholic school in Neuilly. She and her children stood out like a sore thumb and got very badly treated .

I like it that at my daughter's school it is very, very hard to find more than one family with the same cultural/racial/social background as another.

see I wouldn't give a toss

each to their own etc

I take people for people, am not concerned with where they are from/what they earn or whatever

"Honestly the myths perpetuated about private schools are such rubbish. "

then speak to xenia about it quattro, maybe it's her hope that it will enable the contacts, job in the city, etc.

Oliveoil - but what if it were your children in the tiny minority being ostracised by the majority?

A huge great mixture of children from different backgrounds is so much easier for everyone I think. And avoids the creation of a ghetto mentality.

I have never come across any of this

maybe it is a southern London thing

Haven't seen the posts you refer to OO but it does matter to me. I accept that it doesn't matter to you. Though wanting your children to grow up in a mixed culture environment isn't so terribly wrong - perhaps it would bother you less if their DS was called John rather than marmaduke?

If it didn't matter to me, I would sell up move somewhere cheaper and have no mortgage - I put my money where my mouth is, me.

Lord that the second time this week I've agreed with Anna.

Yes I agree with you, that it seems inherently unfair that there are divisions between rich&bright and rich and religious etc but then again I wasn't responsible for abolishing grammar schools and providing government funding for religious schools.

no idea why you mention Marmaduke/John, I have used the first name that came to my head

if my children were being ostracised, I would speak to the head teacher

LOL KC

Actually there are quite a few cross-culturally adopted children at my DD's school - it is particularly well-suited to children who (a) don't speak French fluently (b) come from a variety of cultural backgrounds.

OO was trying to be mildly amuing re names (don;t read too much into lame attempt) as people alwyas use ridiculous naems to illustrate a poncy parent.

I'm not worried abotu being deliberately ostracised, I would like DS to grow up in an environment that is multicultural so he doesn't stick out like a sore thumb. One less thing to worry about - that he looks differnt to everyone else.

Don't actually care who his friends are.

ok here's an interesting question: if someone would send their children to state school if there was a good one, but there isn't so they chose private....

do you think they still retain an interest in the state sector? i.e would they take state education policy into account when voting for local council, MPs, general elections etc? would they campaign on important issues to do with state education? would they be in favour of their taxes going up to fund better state education?

or would they argue, like some people in the right wing media have, that they are reducing the burden on the state and should therefore get a tax rebate (not sure taxation is a pick'n'mix, but there you go)

my worry is that once people have opted out, it's not just their participation in the state schools themselves that is missing - it's also their participation in the elements of democracy that pertain to schooling that are missing.

does that make sense?

so if one believes state schools are rubbish and that's the only reason why one sends one kids to a private school.....does one have a greater or smaller responsibility to try and improve state schooling?