Advanced Reading Skills

[kaansmum]

I really hope that my message won't be perceived as boasting because it's not but I'd really like to talk to mums in a similar position.

My ds who is 4 and a half is in the reception year and appears, despite being the youngest in the class, to have advanced reading skills compared to his peers. He is already reading the books which, his teacher tells me, year 1 pupils who are considered very able are reading and which many year 2 pupils read. She also told me at the parents evening that she is setting him extra literacy work after half term because he is very advanced on that front too, writing sentences and spelling words independently. He's picked up on numeracy too although they don't seem to be pushing that so much yet. He's always shown an interest in reading, writing and spelling from a very early age and we've never pushed him - simply followed his interest and tried to adapt his toys etc to his interests and to make it fun. He's obviously responded well to this and I was just wondering if any other mums are in the same position - apparently it's quite unusual for boys to be so able in the literacy/reading stakes at such a young age.

I'd love to hear from other mums because it's hard at the school gates when you're not having a common experience with other mums on this front and I find I'm constantly having to play down his achievements and most of the time keep completely schtum if the subject comes up!!

Oh if Tintin is a hit, then have a look at Asterix the Gaul.....lots of great puns that they will 'get'!

roisin, that's lovely. Wedgiesmum must be walking on air too. Haven't seen her around for a while, I think? How are they doing?

Sorry - quick hijack and question for Cristina - do your children speak Romanian? Romanian was DD1's first language, didn't learn English until she was three. She has forgotten most, but can still count and remembers the names of odd things - pisica, caine, and for some VERY STRANGE REASON - basina porcului!

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I am so proud of him but can only really boast about his achievements with impunity to DH and my mother who are both equally proud of him.

At the moment DS absolutely loves school and seems to enjoy every aspect of it and gets so much out of the whole experience so the question of being bored or not being stretched has not arisen yet. His teacher really is lovely and she told me at our recent parents evening that I do not come over at all as a "pushy mum" which was very reassuring because I have mentioned him being moved on to the next stage in the reading scheme a couple of times . The last thing you want in these circumstances is for the teacher to take against parent and child or for "tall poppy syndrome" to kick in!!

His teacher has been fantastic so far and spoke to the SENCo about DS without me needing to initiate this. I guess I've been quite lucky and it must be far more worrying for parents who have an uphill struggle with teachers who do not appear willing to acknowledge and/or cater for their more able children. I totally agree that the onus is certainly on getting them all working at the same pace which I guess makes life a lot easier for the teachers!

TBH the prospect of Year 1 worries me more. My neice is in Year 1 at the same school and I know they do a lot of group reading so I guess it's easier if the children are all at a similar level of ability. Also DS finds his cousin's spellings too simple already so we'll have to wait and see. It does worry me to a certain extent that if a child is set different work and moves away from the main group too much that it will ultimately have an adverse impact on them.

Thanks to you all for sharing your experiences.

For Tanzie - sorry I forgot to follow-up from the other evening. My DS only speaks English. I had started by speaking to him in Romanian but he was diagnosed profoundly deaf at 8 months old so I panicked and went for English only while his hearing aids (or cochlear implant) were sorted out. My husband speaks some Romanian but we usually end up speaking English anyway. When my parents are over DS can overhear us speaking Rom. but he isn't particularly interested. I tried again in Rom. but he just told me "mummy, don't speak in Romanian, speak in Wimbledon" lol. He picked up a few words from recent holidays in Portugal, Spain and Germany, so I think he'll speak a second language too but probably not Romanian. We haven't been back to Rom. for 2.5 years (I've been here for 10 years) so he hasn't really got much of a Rom. identity. LOL at "basina porcului", it's a great name isn't it?

Christina7, is ORT stage 5 really the end of year 1? Dd1 is 5 (last month) and finished stage 5 books in Jan, but the teacher didn't tell us what that meant. She's now reading snapdragons, but still finding them quite easy. Quite chuffed if that's how well she's doing!

Yes, at least that's how it appears on the ORT website (there's a PDF file with a chart and recommended ages and school years). As I said, I don't mind DS not going on to the next stage and doing all these extra stage 5 books (pack stories A, B) and now the OLW stage 5, as he's still getting quite a lot from them. Reading-wise he could go further but, unlike other children who probably use text to help them read, he uses reading to help him understand text as he still has a bit of language delay. I taught him to read phonetically (so he could read a newspaper if asked), it's the comprehension side of things which are more important now. (I taught him to read early because he's deaf and although does brilliantly with hearing aids, reading will be of great benefit to him. It's proving so already. Maybe because I'm a pushy parent too at some level.)

Everyone on this thread seems to have children like my DDs, the eldest in particular. She is extremely advanced at reading (despite the best efforts of her current school when she started there in Year 2). Her English, generally, is outstanding to the extent that her teacher (Yr 4) has said that there is nothing she can teach her!! So what do you do? Can you insist on a G and T assessment as it has never been mentioned? Her teacher has told me to let her work on whatever she wants to (after I complained that the grammar questions for homework were in fact incorrect anyway). She doesn't even mark her homework now. There are one or two others in her class who are also able but the majority are average or below (not bragging here merely stating the facts before anyone has a go at me). The classroom assistant is taken up with the lower end and my DD is basically bored stiff. She is also being teased about her ability which she is finding hard to deal with.
I have a parents' evening coming up soon so all/any advice would be appreciated. Any thoughts on the advantages/disadvantages of skipping a year?
Don't want to hijack this thread but feel we are experiencing similar problems and can perhaps pool ideas.

Yoyo - I'm sorry to hear that your school does not appear to meeting your dd's needs. You may find the nagc to be helpful. Under publications they have some interesting books and leaflets.

My boys are (fortunately) at a very supportive school. I'm afraid to say that in discussion with other people I have not heard any 'miracle' stories where 'unsupportive' schools have been turned around. If you are lucky you get a teacher who is passionate to meet your child's particular needs, or a school with a structure and policy to ensure this happens. If you don't, it seems the choice is to put up with it or move.

Personally I'm not a huge fan of acceleration (moving up a year), though I can see it fulfils a purpose in certain cases. Enrichment and extension activities are more suitable for most highly able children, but it generally requires more time/commitment/resources from the school to set up. Acceleration can be an easier option for the school, but doesn't necessarily solve the problems.

HTH

Hi Catan. I was just wondering, would the reading test you're going to scan on be appropriate for my DS (aged 4 and 6 months) to complete? I asked earlier in this thread what test was used to determine chronological reading age - is this the one?

Thanks Roisin and Catan. The school had a new Head this year so allowed her a term to get to know the children. I thought I would go to the parents' Evening and follow up the comments made in writing to her. I know she needs extension work but it has to be seen to matter. Last term she was told to do a project on anything she wanted and I stopped her because I knew it wouldn't be marked and would just be a time-wasting exercise. I feel I am more than capable of doing that sort of thing with her myself but am just concerned that her needs are not being met in school. We do not have the option of moving her, do not foresee a move ourselves, and local Prep schools are less than impressive. Her teacher is v. young and an NQT so I do appreciate the difficulties she has. Would it be appropriate to contact her mentor (the Deputy Head and DD's teacher last year)? She wasn't very supportive though and discouraged stretching DD at home (obviously this was ignored by us).

I feel such a responsibility for DD's education that I have to act now (very soon this will apply to DD2 too). Do you think a home tutor would be appropriate?

I'm not sure a home tutor is going to meet the needs either ...

You could go and see an independent Ed Psych, and then go and see the school with the report an see what they say. But tbh I know people who've been down this route and it hasn't actually made much difference

We took ds1 to an independent EP too, and subsequently had a long and fruitful meeting with his teacher, the G&T co-ordinator, and the Head. His previous year's teacher also asked to see a copy of the report. But this is a supportive school, who are passionate about meeting the needs of all children, including the highly able ... I know not every school is like that.

Sorry - I'm not being much help.

Frogs is often on here during the week. Her experience may well be closer to yours, and she may be able to offer you some gems.

Roisin has given me a nudge on another thread to post here for you, yoyo, as we're in a similar situation with dd1 (age 9, in Y5). I'd been deliberately avoiding this thread, as it's too close to home, and I don't want to be depressing.

Essentially, some schools are very aware of high ability, or at least prepared to take an interest and make an effort, and others... well, others just aren't. It sounds like your school, or at least the class teacher, might fall into the latter category. IME the situation in many primary schools is that they are (a) preoccupied by getting the maximum no. to Level 4 in Y6; (b) have inexperienced and not terribly competent teachers and (c) large nos. of kids with much more obvious needs. In that kind of context children who are achieving the school's targets are not seen as a priority, regardless of the fact that the they could be doing far more advanced work and are climbing the walls with boredom. Schools can also have a kind of inverted snobbishness about what they see as pushy middleclass parents demanding extra bells and whistles for their already privileged kids.

Obvious steps to take are:

1. Discuss with class teacher and follow up in writing;
2. Make appointment with deputy head (or whoever) to discuss and follow up ditto;
3. Make appointment with Headteacher to discuss ditto.

You should get a feel from these meetings whether the school is likely to be supportive. Somewhere between step 2 and 3 you could also get an Ed Psych's assessment to support your case, but this may be seen as an agressive act by the school and lose you any remaining sympathy. Ultimately there is a limit to how far you can go without relations with the school breaking down completely, so it's important to think what your plans would be if it comes to that, and decide how far you want to push it.

We have only one more year to go, so not really worth moving dd1, although I am sorely tempted. We have worked with her at home a lot, and do have a private tutor for an hour a week, which she really enjoys. We are planning to put her in for selective entrance exams for 2ndary school, so hopefully the problem will be resolved at that point.

If you want to CAT me for more specific info/discussion, feel free!

No answers, but I discovered the 'primary' section of the NAGTY (The Warwick Academy/Summer Schools etc. place) today, and there's some fascinating information on there. Makes for interesting reading.

article by Deborah Eyre - have you come across her? - on the 'national strategy'

this is the primary section

Thanks for that, roisin. Lots of interesting stuff, and they are clearly doing their best, but a bit too close to the government/Ofsted's party line for my taste. It's full of good intentions and fine words, such as: "the best way of identifying and providing appropriately for G and T children is through partnership between parents or carers and the nursery or school".

Sounds like common sense, but for us that has been pie in the sky. The problem with G&T provision can be that firstly, it isn't really valued as important in its own right, just as ticking a box for Ofsted, and secondly that it covers a very wide range of abilities in itself. Despite having an EP's report which assessed dd1 with a verbal iq somewhere northwards of 150 (she reached the ceiling in several of the subtests) the school insists that there are three or four other children in the class just as able (yeah, right, 4 kids out of 30 above the 0.1st centile) , and that her needs are being met. Impasse.

Clearly her needs are not as urgent or as dramatic as those of the children whose parents neglect or abuse them, or do nothing to support them at home, but it's still very depressing to have a child who is being ground on the wheel of the school's expectations every day -- horribly, I have found myself thinking how much easier it would be if she were 'normal' like ds, who is bright and able and doing well in Y1, but not troublesomely well. I've come to the conclusion that there is no will or enthusiasm in supporting and encouraging children whose abilities lie beyond what the system defines as normal.

Frogs - I can't believe there is someone going through exactly the same as us (well I can but have never made contact before). This is very timely as I spoke to her teacher today to ask what the G&T provision was in the school and was told "there are no children here with those requirements". If DD hadn't been in earshot I would either have cried or lost my temper (neither desirable). The school is apparently monitoring her over the next few months and will then decide whether she needs to go on the special needs register. She consistently achieves Level 5 in literacy and they have apparently conceded that they will not be able to teach her in Yr 6 as they "only teach to Level 5". But she's in Yr 4??? I find it so depressing and yet feel there are so few people I can discuss it with. I am constantly being told by other parents how advanced she is but what can you say? It's late and I need to sleep but would appreciate an off-line chat so will try to CAT you (not attempted before so bear with me). Just so relieved to find we're not alone. Many thanks.

happymerryberries, what books does your daughter read? Have same problem with my dd 10yrs. Reading age well above her but difficult to find books suitable. Most books aimed at her age she can read in an evening, nothing stretches her! Books that she is capable of reading, like some of the JW older books are just not suitable. Did find a book a few weeks ago that she really enjoyed, and it took her a few days to read, it was called 'Inkheart' by Cornelia Funke. maybe your daughter could try this

Hi, toomanyberries, has your daughter tried the classics? I found at that age that things like "Oliver Twist" and "David Copperfield" were enjoyable, because they start off in childhood. "Great Expectations" was another good one. I also read "Jane Eyre" and "Wuthering Heights" at around this age, but think that a lot of the subject matter is a bit dubious - not sure I got much out of them. I read loads of Jean Plaidy between 8 and 11 too - I loved all the historical romance side of things. Something else I enjoyed around 11 was Agatha Christie. These may not be up your daughter's street at all, but worth a try!

DD has read a few of the classics, and seems to enjoy them. Have borrowed an Artemis Fowl book for her but she doesn't seem keen to try it.

Catan - thanks for that. I intend to see the Head after she has attended a G&T course this week. DD is definitely in the top 5% of her class, especially in literacy, but have avoided using "gifted" for so long that not even I know whether it applies to her. She is definitely high ability and her needs aren't being met which should surely be enough to get her school to do something? I'm probably being naive. What are the CAT tests?

Oh Catan thanks that would be great. I've got problems with my own pc at home - not least because I'm a total luddite technophobe - as Word is not loaded onto it. If I could have the document e-mailed to my work e-mail address that would be really helpful. However, as I'm new to Mumsnet I'm not quite sure what the policy on divulging e-mail addressess is - any ideas..?

Thanks again.