If you have to scrape together the school fees each term, will your DC fit in?

[wishingchair]

We have great primary schools here but average and below average secondaries. DH and I earn a reasonable salary but are not wealthy. We live in a very average house - we're in the south east so 'average' for here would be 'very small' if we were still up in yorkshire. Finding the school fees would be difficult. I don't want to get into a debate about private vs state as I really don't know where I stand on that one right now, but just wondered, if you were a pretty average family that doesn't have a really nice house and lots of money etc, would your child fit in? Mine are both girls and I remember how miserable I was at times about the bitchiness about clothes, shoes etc ... and I went to my local comp!

I also went to an independent school with parents that were not especially wealthy. I certainly wasn't the only one there - there were many families who drove clapped-out Volvos and didn't go abroad for holidays etc. There were also girls there, though, that were bought brand-new cars once they'd passed their driving tests and who went on holiday to LA and hung out with the Red Hot Chili Peppers !!!! At the time I remember wishing that my parents could afford such exotic trips and vowing that I'd never have children until I was wealthy

Now, though, I'm just so grateful for the standard of education that I received and the fact that I had such brilliant teachers who have given me a love of learning and brilliant career opportunities

As everyone's said, it's going to depend on the school. I went to an OK girls school - there was a reasonably clear division between the posh kids (who had horses and ski-ing holidays) and those of us who were being sent my parents who prioritised education & thought this was the best way to get it, but weren't loaded

No particular animosity between the groups (I suspect each group felt quietly superior!), but we didn't mix loads. Hasn't damaged me at all. My bro went to a private boys school - much snobbier, he wasn't happy. Suit the school to the child...

I've posted a few lines below you about my fears about the other parents at the school I'm considering for dd1
Like everyone has said here there are private schools and private schools. I went to another former grammar where no one's parents seemed particularly rich and money simply wasn't an issue. We were there because it was the best school in town, with a national reputation for excellence, and anyone with tuppence to rub together tried to get their daughter in there. Ny brother went to the boys' equivalent and it was a lovely, scruffy kind of place with zilch social kudos and a lot of academic and sporting merit.
I had friends who went to "public" schools and the ethos there was very different, you were there to meet people like them and not mix with the hoi polloi. I honestly know someone whose dad sent her to Marlborough in the sixth form beause he thought there were too many Jews at her London day school There is no way on earth I would send a dc of mine to a school like that.
However, this was 20+ years ago and I suspect things have changed, fees have gone up exponentially and we live in a far more materialistic society now, so schools like mine may be fewer and farther between. Having said that, more parents than ever are considering private education as the state system's rep is so terrible. You need to look at the school you're considering. If it's an academic place and a former grammar school then fine, but if it's not you may have more to worry about.

I was the poor kid at my school. Wasn't that fun tbh. The other kids used to laugh at my dad's car

And we were not in any way poor - compared to most, my family were well off but compared to most of my classmates, we were broke.

As others have said, it depends on the school. Some private schools won't have many hugely wealthy parents; some will.
I would be more concerned about the very real likelihood that fees will increase enormously (way faster than salaries are likely to) and also the credit crunch will have a knock on which may well mean that many private schools will have a rough time over the next few years which could result in even more fee increases.
Be realistic about what you are prepared to sacrifice. It's easy to say you're not bothered about having holidays etc but are you really going to be happy if for the foreseeable future you can't afford day trips out? Meals out? Theatre? Concerts? Just worth a thought. Like isnt fun when you're scrimping.

I had a conv with my dh about this the other day
Would we rather be the wealthiest in a state school or the poorest in a private school?

We came to no conclusion I'm afraid

I think it does depend on the school.

When you work out if you can afford it, factor in the uniform (DD's cost nearly £1000) and extra-curricular things. I've realised that we have nearly doubled our original fees in our first year with little extras.

Also find out when the installments are due - we have to pay the years fees in 3 installments over the first 6 months rather than the whole year. We also had to pay a terms fees on acceptance of the place plus a deposit, which pretty much equalled 6 months fees in the year before DD started.

Depends on the school and depends on the child. There are a couple of tosser families at the prepschool my DS goes to, but school itself has fabulous pastoral ethos and I think the kind of 'mean girls' attitudes would lead to the perpertrators themselves being shunned.

You need to investigate more - the ISC school reports give a good insight (the one for ours even points out the typical 'background' of the children). And if your child is sporty and attractive and sociable then they're not going to have problems anyway.

And in terms of parents themselves, wealth is generally more embarassing than lack of it.

depends on the school, depends on the children, depends on lots of things.
my DS1 was at a school for a couple of years that was full of really pushy parents. Everything was about where you lived, how you dressed etc. Because the parents were like this the kids were too.
I remember having one boy over and when his mum came to pick him up she was visibly aghast at our house and ( surprise surprise) DS1 was not invited back . Interestingly they were also a group of parents who found DS2's special needs really hard to navigate.
We moved DS1 as soon as we could and moved a few miles away.
Funny thing was DS1 had a leaving party at our new house and when same mum turned up and saw where we had moved to she suddenly missed me and wanted to be my friend.
Hilarious.
At his current school his friends are from huge range of backgrounds and none of them genuinely give a toss how wealthy or not you are.Asked my son about whether the 'bling' attitude of the previous school existed at all where he is now and he just really laughed.
He is really happy now

People (I assume you mean parents) may pride themselves on getting second-hand uniforms but I can tell you that every girl in the school knew that MY uniform was 2nd hand and I felt poor and out of place.

This despite the fact that we were not "poor", just not well-off.

My mum scraped up the fees with childminding money.

It's a hard decision, she didn't think I'd fit in in the local comp (sent my younger brother there, he was fine) and I probably agree with her, but I didn't fit into the private secondary either.

Maybe I wouldn't have fitted in anywhere

I had the same experience as many of you - poor one in rich school, never fitted in. In spite of that, put dd2 through it and she settled straight away and was extremely happy. Maybe times and attitudes have changed? We did explain to her that in advance that she wouldn't be able to do school trips and she never complained as she certainly wasn't alone - many kids were paid for by grandparents and in our case, remortgage. A year after she left (we ran out of money) she has stayed very close to the friends she made and has been on holiday with one of them.

If you think she'll get a better education, go for it! You can always move back into the state sector - we did, reluctantly, but she's happy there too. Good luck whatever you decide.

I would tend to go for the state school and use the money to fund extras - like private tuition and extra-curricular activities - if you have a good state school nearby. I have spent a reasonable amount of time in Germany and their kids do a lot of extra-curricular stuff - and can do because their parents can spend money on the extras rather than school fees as private schools are a rarity over there. Examples: sports courses, language courses, high school year in the US etc.

That said, my son is at state primary and one of his friends has a swimming pool in the garden. And everyone has a bigger bedroom than he does. So there's still house envy :-)

I would agree it depends on the school, imo city schools can be less judgemental than country ones. And ime, state school was far more hellish than what I've seen at private school in terms of bullying. Having lived and worked at a senior boarding school I would say that most of the parents were in the same position as you. Could you attend a couple of open days and sneak a peak at the other mums and dads?

I think it can depend on you and your children. How comfortable do you feel when you are surrounded by people with differing levels of wealth. How mch are your children likely to mind? I think that people who are prone to envy are more likely to feel awkward in that setting. There's that to consider as well as the possibility snobbery that your child might encounter.

Good point about funding the extras. Some well timed private tuition can make a huge difference - eg I've seen students in state schools make HUGE leaps in a relatively short space of time. A friend of mine tutored a boy who got a C grade Maths GCSE in June and got an A in November retakes!! (He wanted to up the grade for the A levels and career he plans). My friend tutored him weekly over the summer and then intensive sessions for the run up to the exam. All a lot cheaper than school fees.

Depends on the school. The better the academic standard usually the less posh the school and the more people enter on the basis of IQ often from poorer homes.

City of London girls which just got one of the best set of exam results in the country has one in give girls on financial support. (City of London boys is where Diane Abbott's son went rather controversially and he just got 11 A* in his GCSE, bet he as a black boy at an inner city comp would not have got those results.

Just to give you both flip-sides... I went to private primary and secondary school. The primary was actually worse for snobbery than the secondary, but mainly because it was so very small (at one point there were ten people in my entire year group) and poor opinions of one particular girls parents (basically because they were considered common) filtered down to the kids, and she was never invited around for play dates and was sometimes teased at school. When my dad found out he was furious and was invited around our house all the time!!

At my secondary school (all girls) there were definately girls that were very rich (their own branded clothes!! and some of princess diana's god children), and there were a lot more people whose parents just got by and were trying to avoid bad state schools. It was actually very rare that the truly rich kids would bully anyone, and no one would ever say anything to anybody who said oh - I can't go on that trip it's too expensive.

Good news, in private schools, most extra curricular activities and days out are free! It's only if it's not on a school day usually that you would have to pay, and then there is usually only one 'big' trip a year, and nobody goes on all of them! At my school they ranged in price from less than a hundred (two or three day breaks to europe) a few hundred pounds (a week long european adventure holiday at a beach or skiing) to more than a thousand pounds (to go to the amazon!)

It's a bit hard to explain but it will probably be noticed if your kids don't have expensive mobile phones or iPods, and noticed again if they ask for expensive things for birthdays/christmas and don't get it. But at the same time it will only actually be a problem if your DC desperately wanted to be in with the very-small-crowd-of-people who actually care about these things. This crowd of people probably aren't actually the popular people but the ones who would like to be IYSWIM!! Good social qualities are far more likely to be valued by their peers than wealth.

Like somebody else said though, it depends which school you sent them too. Definately check it out first, preferably on a school day, if you can listen to the way the kids talk to each other in the hallways etc or ask the staff about how much of a social mix there is/what provision there is for needs based scholarships which should give you an idea of how mixed it is. Be aware that some schools, particularly those that consider themselves 'public' schools can be very very snooty. At secondary school we were shocked to go on a school trip with another private school and after years of being teased by local state school kids for being posh, to be called common by them! Apparently the teachers were equally weird/snobbish, because our teachers got really angry with their attitude to everything (ie the idea that they wouldn't have a word with their students for being so twattish as to call anybody common) and never arranged another event with them again!

There are absolutely enormous disparities of wealth among the parents at my daughter's school. I have yet to see how it all pans out. But I think that it is quite usual that there are some hugely wealthy parents among a private school's pupils, and others that are struggling. I think the only thing you can reasonably do is to try to find out more about the sociological profile of families who send their children to the schools you are considering, and see whether you fit any of the segments.