School plays - same old same old...

[pooodle]

Urgh. I have just come back from my sons school play and yet again it is the same "posh" children with the lead parts, and the more working class relegated to bit parts. Is it just me, or do schools just pander to these mums who have nothing better to do all day than secretly watch Jeremy Kyle while brown nosing being on the parent governing body or running hot dogs for school fetes? Sorry, just had to have a rant, and I am a teacher!

But, idling, if you're middle-class, then I'm afraid it serves you right.

Well, Donnie, according to this thread, anyone who bakes cakes, is on the PTA, and whose child gets a part in the school play.

Oh for goodness sakes!
The children who get the lead parts in the plays are the ones who have clear voices, will not freeze up on stage, will enjoy it and who can be trusted to learn and remember lines.
With smaller children I accept this probably means having a parent who can be trusted to spend 1/2 an hour or whatever each night going over them for a few week (and I don't mean 'middle class' here I mean will go over lines with dc). The teachers see the pupils in front of their peers - We don't, none of us can compare our children to their peers as objectively as their teachers, I struggle to believe these teachers sit in the staffroom going, "well little wayne might be a fantastic budding thespian but because of his broad scouse accent he can't possibly play the lead, lets choose Tarquin because he has a home counties accent, never mind he's thick as 2 short planks, couldn't act his way out of a paper bag and is tone deaf he pronounces grass grarse and bath barth!

disclaimer - i pronouce grass grarse and bath barth too!

er, I'm a governor and my kids have never had big parts... that's because one is very easily distracted and the other doesn't talk very clearly.

As for being posh - why should being a governor make you posh? They don't ask you you know ''Oh dear Mrs Ffforbes-BuntingCupcake, I couldn't help noticing you have an extremely posh motor and you all holiday in Mauritius, do join us on the Governors, wont ytou..''

You simply have to apply (and are voted in by the other parents) In fact I applied because I am not rich or posh and wanted to make sure things remained inclusive to all children and parents after a rash of rather expesnive school trips/PTA ball etc were arranged.

Ditto PTA membership - anyone can get involved.

You all want some vinegar with the chips on your shoulder...?

A slight digression but I was really pleased to see a girl who was really lacking in confidence being made the centre of a dance (may-pole type thing) at my dd's school fete last weekend. The girl concerned was awkward, stood with hunched shoulders, and was out of step with the music - you really felt for her as she obviously hated being on stage initially - but the teacher had arranged it so that she could stand in the centre of the other girls holding ribbons (not much movement required) while the others danced around her and you could see her visibly growing in confidence and in the end she was smiling broadly. It brought a tear to the eye actually .... sniff

lol peapod and filthy. I have been on all three sides teacher, parent and governor and any suggestion that children are chosen on anything other than ability is ridiculous.

You're right Clam but I better not get too chippy about how we are meant to feel somehow guilty about it.
Middle Class is such a wide catch all and whilst I fulfill a fair few stereotypes there are plenty which I don't.

C'mon OP, if you trully believe that then get invloved yourself...what's stopping you?

Don't think they even know what middle class is in Stoke!

rofl.

IME it's true that you can get a small handful of children who get a lead role year in year out and they're not necessarily the best either. Don't know whether it's the pushy parents (probably in some cases) but it does get irritating.I think when you're talking secondary age, it also shows really poor judgement about what drama and performance is about too. It's almost as though a myth builds up around these kids - eg Johnny is SO fantastic, he really MUST be the lead in everything, when actually he's probably not suited to many of the roles. I remember cringing during a performance a while ago when the lead role was noticeably weaker than many of the smaller roles, and cameo roles. There were some amazing performances from kids who frankly could have done with being on the stage a lot more than the leading role!!

So, tell me how this pushy parent scenario works. How do they get their kid into a main part? Do they nobble the teacher after school, where money changes hands? Or do they just complain a lot, so that teachers feel intimidated into casting their kid in subsequent productions? For me, a perceived "pushy parent" is one whose kid is in danger of staying in the back row of the chorus on a matter of principle. I simply do not believe there are teachers out there who subscribe to this sort of old boy network.

clam me thinks thou doth protest too much??

just kidding!

Ok, look, the pta comment and baking cakes was too harsh, i was just in a bad mood when i wrote it. however i do still think that reusing the same kids for staring role ever year is just lazy. my school is very mixed, but it was quite notable that this year yet again all the staring roles went to the same 8 middle class kids as at xmas - possibly last year too - they get more nuturing and are therefore more articulate. i dont resent this, i like to think i am a bit middle class myself! however i do think that the less articulate ones, which, generally are the less middle class, should be given more of a look in, even if they are not as good.

OK, but I really would like to know, along with donnie, on what grounds you're classifying these kids as "posh" or middle-class. I just don't see how/why it's relevant to your argument. You may be right that there are some kids who end up with good parts more often than others, but what has it to do with their social background? I just don't look at kids in that way, and nor do most teachers. It's NOT RELEVANT. They're kids, one and all, some of whom can act/sing/dance and some who can't.
DH, who was just about to tut at me for being on MN again, has become interested in this thread, and would like me to point out that, in his many years of directing school plays, far and away the best performance put in by any of his pupils was the one whose parents were both drug addicts and were barely literate. She brought the house down with her performance and received the sort of praise and adulation normally reserved for West End stars.

I agree that the 'posh' or 'middle class' thing isnt particularly relevant. It's more that in some schools, teachers do find it hard to deal with the pressure of pushy parents. They do end up compromising their professional principles. I'm not saying a kid who is clearly crap would be given a lead role, but it's definitely the case that there can be a small group of kids who get cast in the lead roles year in year out and they aren't necessarily the most talented or the best for the role. And as pooodle says, it's just lazy.

Are these kids cast because their parents are pushy then? And if so, how/why? I just don't get it. Are you imagining, as peapod said earlier, that the staff sit around saying "oh well, better give Tarquin the lead or else his mum will be in?"
Bring it on, MrsTarquin!!

well clam i do think class is relevant. there are numerous studies to show that "middle class" children tend to do well in life, working class tend to stay in manual jobs etc. it is because they are more articulate because middle class parents more likely to take them to drama/scouts/church groups/ballet etc, where as many working class it is less prevalent. therefore these children are more likely to be given the staring role in school play which increases their confidence even further, whilst less articulate/etc kind of know their place - it carries on. they know they wont get star role, which confirms their own sense of worth and on it goes. i think it is the job of the school to break this kind of thing down, not reinforce it.

So, I refer you to my example of just now, in DH's school......., as well as mine earlier. Not guilty!

clam, the lead roles go to the most articulate, who are usually so articulate because they are brought up to be so, usually MIDDLE CLASS! i doubt you get many hoodies who have played prince charming in the school play. you can argue that all you like but I work in a secondary and see it for myself there too. im not saying that its true in every single occasion, though, of course there will be exceptions, urggh!

No, the lead roles go to those who can act, which the middle classes do not have the monopoly on. And what on earth is that "know their place" about? More "classist" chippy stuff.
Look, I don't disagree with your general points about children from supportive homes etc..., but that didn't seem to be what you were driving at earlier. You've made a number of jibes at the perceived social backgrounds of the kids with the lead roles, as well as MNers. Unnecessary and irrelevant, in my view.

clam thats your view, i have expressed mine, as far as i know this is a public forum and exactly what it was created for. if you dont like it dont read it! jeez

my dear ds1 who is the best actor known to man, has never graduated past being a tree - because he is guaranteed to try and take over the stage...then he will twiddle with something vital in the wings and make the stage collapse!

Ooh, this thread has brought out the class warrior in me.
I think Poodle is right in that MC kids do do better in life in respect of educution, life chances etc BUT it doesn't have to be that way.
My Mother brought me up on a horrendous sink estate in the 70s recessions. She is uneducated past 14, married at 16 and had no exposure whatever to MC values. However she could see well enough that my peers were destined to lives of continued deprivation and refused to allow the same for me.
So Poodle, don't sit on the sidelines whining, the status quo does not have to be your status quo.

litchick, i am a ex working class graduated to almost respectable middle class, but many of my friends still w/c, and all their kids had the little walk on roles, the m/c ones again had the better. i have no chip on my shoulder, my son is going to the best school in my county due to my middle class pushyness to get him in there, and will probably end up living a the m/c class lifestyle that i have. but still doesnt make any of this fair on the w/c ones, who are unlikely to be able to move up, due to things like school plays! i am glad you were also able to move, but i think we are the exceptions.

If I don't like what? The debate, or your chippy digs about middle class cake-baking PTA members? We have all been discussing the point you raised in your original post, about why all the "posh" kids were in the lead roles, with a few suggesting that teachers were influenced by pushy parents. As a teacher who strives hard to be fair and create opportunities for all (regardless of background), as most teachers do in fact, that suggestion hacks me off - on behalf of the whole profession. Of course there are cases where a bit of positive discrimination comes into play, but generally, these things are based on merit. That's my experience anyway.