Isolation rooms in schools

[Chichi444]

Hello !

So my sons school has very strict behaviour policy which includes Isolation rooms which pupils are sat in without the freedom of leaving even for just going to the bathroom unless accompanied by a member of staff and and are expected to remain silent and have no school work given to them and these pupils are given no movement breaks.

This punitive measure is given for even the most minor slip ups such as not having the right uniform or for more serious behavioural issues.

My 11 year old son in year 7 and he was given two consecutive days of Isolation which he sat for 7 hours in a row without movement break so altogether 14 hours , for nothing which was severe enough for to be punished that way.

I was told that he was to sit a third 7 hours in isolation.
Ive decided to challenge their decision as I feel the reason for it didn’t warrant such harsh punishment.

Ive wrote to the principal requesting to review but meanwhile my son isn’t in school as the school told me that whenever he returns to school he will have to sit the isolation.

Now what I’m asking is has any parent out there ever challenged the school on such matters what was you experience and eventually the outcome?

Any input would be so helpful thank you!🫶

@Boredoflunch1 So you think the head of a PRU has only worked in a PRU? Almost certainly not the case. Heads of PRUs teach like any other teacher who rises to be SLT. Of course they are aware of other dc. However they see the very damaged ones and can make a much better evaluation than a school.

By your logic, they've already seen the "damaged" ones in mainstream so why do they need to lead a PRU? If they were that good, they'd have solved the problem in mainstream.

Alternatively the PRU heads recognise that for some students, the small group, higher staff ratio environment is what is needed to support them. That doesn't mean mainstream is wrong for using lesson removal, it means the two environments are different. Isolation as a threat does work for 95% of children. They don't want to go there, and if they do, it's a one off experience. Schools where students aren't removed have lessons routinely disrupted and no one is learning. That's not OK.

PRU heads going on the radio about mainstream schools and isolation almost certainly won't have worked in mainstream and seen isolation. I think I know which prominent PRU head it would have been, give him a Google and look at his background. Not someone I'd want advocating for my child.

@Boredoflunch1 How come? Where might they have worked then? In a private school? PRUs don’t have NQT staff and specialist PRU staff from age 22. Many PRU heads come from mainstream and are in constant dialogue with mainstream regarding pupils. They don’t work in isolation. Of course they know what goes on. Plus most mainstream teachers have no experience of PRUs and have never been near one. They have already passed dc on by PEx and have no interest in where dc ends up! However listening to experienced heads is always a good thing. Rubbishing their opinions is poor.

They have already passed dc on by PEx and have no interest in where dc ends up!

This kind of rhetoric helps no one.

PRU heads see the extreme cases, the minority for whom isolation doesn't work. Those children need more resources than mainstream can provide. That doesn't mean isolation shouldn't be used in mainstream.

If its the person I'm thinking of, they've never worked in mainstream. Small SEND provision and now head of a PRU.

Most schools give pupils work when they are internally excluded. Can he read a book? He must be allowed to go to the toilet.

@Boredoflunch1 Have you looked at the Pex numbers. So you know one PRU head? That’s hardly a wide sample and few NQTs can ever start in a small unit. I’ve never seen that. They tend to develop an interest and take extra training based on that. They are often SENDCO and have worked up to that senior position in mainstream or occasionally, special schools. The main point is they have far more expertise in teams of these dc. Of course mainstream teachers don’t see pru dc again. Why would they?

Plus all views should be welcome. The important point is that some mainstream schools are strict and intolerant. They do label dc without knowing what is causing the issue. By shoving dc away into rooms for relatively minor infringements is not helping them develop good habits. Surely that’s what schools really want?

Extrapolating from some 'strict and intolerant' schools into 'removing disruptive kids from lessons is poor behaviour management and those schools and teachers don't care about those kids' is insulting to the vast majority of teachers who, unlike those in PRUs, have to care about all the kids in the classrooom.

@noblegiraffeYes, but this dc wasn’t a menace in the classroom. And you definitely don’t keep tabs on dc after they go. It’s becoming fairly obvious many people don’t like schools as they are at the moment. Personally I think we need more behaviour special schools but they cost money. It’s a shame teachers in mainstream discount the views of other teachers though.

Yes, but this dc wasn’t a menace in the classroom. And you definitely don’t keep tabs on dc after they go

You don't think schools should take racism seriously?

Do you think it's reasonable to expect schools to keep tabs on children who don't go to the school? Why do you think they have the right to any data on them?

Well, the latest government guidance is expected to say that more students should be internally excluded, rather than suspended for such things as drugs, alcohol, persistent disruption, refusing to enter a classroom, telling the teacher she's a stupid whore, taking photos and filming other children with ill intent, threatening other children that they'll be rushed after school, telling girls to get their tits out and that everybody knows they do anal and choking, etc - everything except actual violence, allegedly.

So there will be more of these poor, unfortunate little souls needing to be in isolation rooms.

I disagree that he wasn’t a menace in the classroom. He typed a horrifically offensive racist slur into classroom equipment. It’s bad enough if he did it without anyone seeing, but if he did it performatively with his mates looking on, which as a teacher I can imagine happening (I just can’t imagine a kid working quietly, thinking ‘ooh I’ll just see what the N word is in another language’) that makes it even worse. Horrible for any other child in the class who might witness it, even more so if they are a person of colour.

Taking precious adult time from those who wish to learn. Honestly, children who behave and just want to learn are thrown completely under the bus constantly. I agree SEND and those needing support should get it, but not at the expense of the education of everyone else. There has to be balance.

It’s a shame teachers in mainstream discount the views of other teachers though.

It's a shame those in PRU and AP discount the views of mainstream teachers.

And you definitely don’t keep tabs on dc after they go.

We do. Quite often they come back because "they're not suitable for this AP". Putting the buck back to mainstream again.

Have you looked at the Pex numbers.

As in number of students PExed? Yes it's tiny.

As in where they end up? Classic case of correlation not meaning causation. The PEx isn't why they end up in prison, the behaviour that led to the PEx is the same behaviour which leads to prison.

As a society it might be good to actually do something to change the situation, rather than pointlessly put students in isolation.

Schools are dealing badly with things that should be dealt with properly by other services.

Removing a disruptive child from a classroom where they are damaging the education of others is not 'pointlessly putting them in isolation'.

Some people really don't seem to give a shit about the rest of the kids.

Its not pointless because it protects the other children.

I do think that the government is on the wrong track with saying actual suspensions or exclusions should only be for physical violence. Students who are persistentantly disruptive enough to meet the current threshold, should really be going somewhere for specialist support.