Are your secondary school DCs allowed out of school unsupervised at lunchtime?

[miljee]

Do people consider this an issue? I can't remember ANY of us being allowed out of my school except the 6th formers! So I'm always a bit surprised to see gangs of youths wandering the streets, hanging around outside the Co-op etc in the locals comprehensives uniforms. What about the legals? WHO exactly is responsible for these sometimes 11 year olds between 12.30 and 1.30?

Is it the sort of question one asks about when choosing a secondary? Or is it so common you'd be considered Victorian for even caring?

I'm pretty sure the secondary school near my dc's primary says it does not allow pupils out and about during the day (from what I remember of the prospectus) but in reality I often see pupils from there in the local park at lunchtime... I guess it is hard to enforce without security on the gate!

I think it's an entirely reasonable question to ask. IME (and we looked round loads of schools for dd1) most of the better schools don't let Y7-11 out at lunchtime. The schools that do tend to have either a very strong laid back liberal ethos (eg our local desirable secondary whose less lovable-looking pupils are to be found smoking, snogging, littering and swearing outside the tube station every lunchtime or else take the attitude that they'd rather the trouble took place off the premises rather than on it (dodgy attitude imo).

Having said that, do remember that the pupils you see are the ones who've chosen to spend lunchtime hanging around outside the chipshop -- you don't see the ones who are busy inside doing orchestra, gym club or extra art.

Only Year 10 and above are allowed out, provided their parents have provided written permission.

only yr 11's at ds's school

In my son's school, they are allowed out from Year 9 upwards. I was like you: shocked that it was allowed to happen and concerned enough to ask about it at the evening they held for prospective parents.

That said, this school is a bit different as the sixth form is on a separate site from the main school and some of the Year 10s and 11s have lessons in the sixth form so there is a certain amount of movement outside school anyway.

I am not really happy about it, but it is viewed as a good school (well, the only school in our town) and the town is small so it is not quite the same as allowing children to wander around a big city.

Oh I think it might be from Year 10 upwards, now that I think about it....

My dd's school allow them out from yr 7, to a particular shop; they have to get permission and sign out; if they want to go further afield they also have to get permission and say more or less where they're going,; in theory, this means the school always has idea of where they are ( although rules are there to be broken)
By year 9 I think, they can go further, but still sign out , get permission.
Although my dd is young for her age and very unstreetwise, this freedom has allowed her to grow up, be responsible and have some autonomy.
I can't really see what the fuss is about. By yr 7 they are mostly 11/12. At that age I was going all over the place on my own or with friends.

For me, it isn't that they are roaming the streets alone that worries me. My son goes off to meet friends or goes into town on his own outside school.

I may be wrong, but I just feel it is not good for discipline. As frogs implied, it seems to allow trouble to take place off the school's premises yet at a time when the school is responsible for the welfare of their pupils. Also, I wonder how many teaching hours are lost over the course of the year with children wandering back to school late?

I have no idea what our local schools allow (ds is only) but when I was at school we were allowed out at lunchtime. Even at primary school, we were allowed to go home at lunchtime (walking home on our own).

Personally, I don't have a porbelm with it, provided that they are not causing a nuisance. And that goes to the vlaues that home and the school are building in the kids.

Actually, at ds' current primary, kids are still allowed at at lunchitme - provided there is written authoirsation from the parents (n most cases it would be go to home home - across the [quiet] road - for lunch)

Not where I work, and not in my kids' school. We do allow kids off site to go home for lunch, but only in a set area, and only if we have a letter from the parents. We have staff on both gates for all of lunch and break, and students have an exit car....with their photo on, if they are allowed off site.

If students need to leave the school for medical/dental appointments, they get a temporary card, for the dates needed only. these also have photos on them.

Only sixth formers at ds's school

Personally, I'm not happy about the concept of my 11 year old DS wandering the streets with lord knows who! I also think it's a discipline issue, and it can really colour a school's reputation when all the locals DO see is the scruffy fag smoking DCs hanging around the local shop ("Only 2 children in uniform allowed inside at once" or in Australia where it's common, DCs HAVE to leave their school bags outside, lunchtime shoplifting is so rife!).

However, I do think from Y10 onwards, it's a different kettle of fish and that some freedom could be allowed- or rescinded if abused!

Would you say it can be a measure of a 'better school', whether it's allowed or not?

Don't they have other staff to be responsible for them at lunch time, like at primary school? I always got fed up with play time supervision at primary, because the teachers opted out , fair enough, it's their lunch break, but the playground supervisors were bloody useless; one bullied boy, who my daughter rescued and got bruised herself, was tied to a tree and had his glasses taken and trashed; where were the supervisors? playing fairy games with the little 5 yr olds.
A school which is considered to be very good round here, prides itself that every lunch time, the kids are doing a club or activity; they don't go ourt as there's no where to go( in the middle of fiields) and are supervised every minute of their day. The school is very highly thought of, very strong disclipline, and very serious looking kids , ( some we know who cry because of too much pressure and homework). It is run on quite military lines. I have heard few parents who didn't praise it.
But it's just not my cupof tea. I think kids need some freedom and be able to mess about , organise their own time, and yes, maybe get into trouble. It's part of a process.... otherwise, when given freedom later they might go wild?

Martian an exit car crikey, what a school
I suppose it depends where you live.
I still thin k a bit of freedom is a good thing.
They are monitored and watched and organised too much.

Only sixth formers at DDs school are allowed out at lunchtime.

Went to visit my Mum last week and all the local schoolchildren there are allowed out for lunch. Old ladies refuse to go into town at school lunch time or they will almost certainly be trampled to death outside Greggs.

I would be cautious about a school that allowed kids out at lunchtime, particularly Y7-9. As DG said, it's not because I don't trust my dc alone (they have loads of freedom to travel around london, meet friends and go swimming etc) but because it sends a strong signal from the school that hanging round outside the chipship smoking is an acceptable way to spend the lunch hour. Which in turn means that either they are not providing a good range of more productive activities (orchestra, sports clubs, homework support) or they don't think it's important to ensure that all students have equal access to these opportunities (since presumably the chipshop crowd are the ones who most need encouragement to participate in these sorts of extra-curricular activities).

I think there is also a discipline issue -- kids do come back late, some kids presumably don't come back at all, and it does make the school look bad among the local community (and the school must know that).

Exit card

Out sixth formers are allowed off site

Only from yr 9. Yrs 7 and 8 were in a seperate building 1 mile away (split site school).

Where we used to live (Glasgow) all the schools (good & bad) let the pupils out at lunchtime -- I didn't really like walking past the local school as you'd get a lot of lip. We weren't allowed out till sixth form when I was at school (many years ago!)

What really, really surprised me though was that the final year(P7)at DS1's primary school were allowed out at lunchtime to 'get them used to' being able to do this at Secondary!!!

Is it my imagination or are kids generally allowed more fredom in Scoltand than in England.

In my (limited) expereicne, there doesn't seem to be as strict a control on kids' movements - and even at primary scholl, it seems to be more common to let kids walk to/from school on thier own.

I suppose, if you accept my argument that it might not be good for discipline, and frog's point about extra-curricular activites, you might see it as a negative factor in a school. I certainly would not be bothered if my son's school changed its mind and did not allow children out. I think it is one thing to be allowed out to go home for lunch and quite another to be allowed out to invade the town or wander the streets. The children I see almost invariably have a bag of chips in their hands bought from the local chip shop. Well that must go against the healthy eating campaign the school promotes!

I agree that children need freedom to take chances and gain independence, but I am not so sure I want them doing this in school time. I like the idea of school being about education and positive opportunities, and the freedom bit comes at 3:30.

Wow! When my dd1 (now in her early 20s) was at school, she wasn't allowed off the school grounds, at all. In fact, none of the schools where we lived (Florida) allowed the children to leave. They had to be the lunchroom or outside in a designated area.

There were special days allocated for the 12th graders (age 17, 18) where they could go out for lunch. I remember that they were canceled because some of the kids were involved in "speeding contests" and had accidents... There were also some restaurants that banned more students from eating there due to their bad behavior.

What happens if you go home for lunch? At my secondary in Newcastle (20 years ago now though), we were allowed out at any age, provided that our parents had not specified we were staying for school dinners. I often used to take friends with me and we walked home and back (well over a mile away).

TBH it never occurred to me that kids might not be allowed out but I'm obviously behind the times (and don't yet have secondary aged children...). is this something that has chnaged over recent years?