Dyscalculia or just bad at maths?

[RobEmily]

I’m wondering if my year 4 daughter (age 8) might have dyscalculia and if so whether I need to get a diagnosis for her / what support that unlocks.

For context, she was diagnosed with dyslexia a few months ago (so kicking myself now for not doing an assessment for both at the same time…) She struggles with retention of things ie phonics so her spelling is atrocious and inconsistent. I’ve tried everything with that and feel we have got nowhere.

For maths, she still counts basic sums using her fingers.

She can’t tell the time at all.

I’m not sure if she has instant recall of number bonds to 10, if she does then she doesn’t easily relay this with higher digits ie 30-26 she wouldn’t know was 4 without writing down and calculating in column method.

If I show her how to do a maths equation and then give her 10 questions she’d get them all right, but if I give her 10 mixed questions using equations she has been previously taught she’d get a fair few wrong either because;

• she misreads the equation symbol
• she doesn’t transfer a number or mixes the digits up ie writes 64 instead of 46
• will forget to add a digit on ie she used column method to work out 48-5 as a long equation and the wrote 3 as the answer as she forgot the 4. This was in a word problem so you’d think she’d see that was nonsense by the quantity of the answer, or am I expecting too much?

we are slowing working through times tables, we have technically done 2, 5, 10, 3, 4 but if we don’t consistently practice all of them every day she forgets them. And division is much harder she can’t do 14/2 without support. She just doesn’t flip the numbers around at all.

She has got “working towards expected” in maths every year, but last year she actually got expected - although she did have a maths tutor all year.

This year she is in several maths intervention classes.

This is all despite hard work on her part. Her report cards are glowing in that regard - her year 3 teacher praised her work ethic and called her a “model pupil” in his report to her dyslexic assessor.

I asked the teacher how she was doing in maths as they’d done an assessment and her mark was low - but the teacher just said this is a year 4 paper so it’s ok for this time in the year.

Should I get her an assessment for dyscalculia or is this possibly just because of the dyslexia / her not being great at maths? If I went for the assessment, what support should I expect / how would it change anything?

I’ve just paid £600 for the dyslexic one and so far I’ve not seen what school is going to do about it other than encourage her to use the Nessy app, which we already do and I think does nothing as it relies on phonics, which at this point I think we can safely say is never going to work!

Sorry if this all sounds very negative… my daughter is amazing at many, many other things and a truly lovely person. But academically I think we’re both a little burnt out…

You will have taught many more children with undiagnosed dyscalculia in your twenty years. It is very real. However, it needs a specialist to teach children who have dyscalculia maths - not a standard maths teacher, not the bottom set maths teacher, not your generalised SEN teacher. Dyscalculia is where dyslexia was a generation ago.

Funnily enough the British Dyslexia society has a good section on Dyscalculia. Can you look at it, and its tips/resources and just apply them with the turor and ask the school to do so as well (due to overlap with existing duagnosis)

This will either help as she has dyscalculia or help because most if them are sensible tips for someone with Dyslexia learning maths.

Basically, im saying you dont need the permission of a diagnosis to push ahead with support. The strategies wont cause any harm.

I didn't say it wasn't real, I said it was rare. I said that most children who have difficulties with maths can have those difficulties explained by either poor foundations in mathematics teaching, or by other non-maths specific SEND such as slow processing or poor working memory.

I am also sure that there are some people who want to make dyscalculia as big a 'thing' as dyslexia because there's a lot of money in private diagnoses and tutoring.

I agree to a certain extent.

DD2 does not have an official diagnosis, but after an assessment at school with a visiting Ed Psych, there were numerous traits that were consistent with dyscalculia, and tbh, not sure that a categorical diagnosis would be helpful as the plan would be to work on the fundamentals of maths thus working on her long term memory - at least this is my understanding.

DD2 also has zero idea about quantities, distance, and time to a certain extent, although weirdly is very good at sticking to a schedule.

Some of the characteristics of her short term memory issues seem only to be present in Maths, so whether it's dyscalculia or Maths short term memory

As a parent of a child now in Y12 with severe dyslexia that was picked up very early, primary paid for full in-depth reports etc, I would say to expect absolutely nothing in the way of support within school unless you can get an EHCP. If you are lucky they will get access arrangements for exams.

Your DD's issues with maths sound very similar to my child - working memory was the problem rather than dyscalculia.

My suggestions would be:

• Teach to touch type and move to a laptop as early as possible.
• Start saving now for 1:1 tutoring across most subjects in Y10/Y11
• Think about a specialist 1:1 dyslexia tutor now, especially one who is open to not just using phonics. Phonics works for most children but not all.
• Find the thing that your child is really good at and invest time and effort in supporting that. It makes a HUGE difference to their sense of self and self-esteem to not feel useless at everything. For mine that was music... she's now at a specialist music college and nobody cares that she can't spell.
• Keep an eye out for ADHD especially if family history of dyslexia or neurodiversities. Iiirc around 60% of kids with ADHD are also dyslexic.

I'm sorry not to have better news, but we massively struggled for years to get support in a system that is overwhelmed and with an SpLd that is very hard, maybe impossible to really do much about, and expensive for schools to do anything about. If child is also very bright then it seems doubly hard.

Schools like dyslexic students where they make the odd spelling mistake, they do not like the ones that really need intensive long-term support and different ways of teaching.

There are a few specialist schools - Maple Hayes, Fairley House etc. But you are compromising on wider subject offers and they are very expensive if you are self funding.

We eventually decided to focus on being practical - DD wants a future in music, so embrace tech... teach them to use software that will help them edit and communicate (spell check, grammarly, speech to text etc) and things like AI and ChatGPT are a godsend. Once they get past GCSEs there are things like BTECs that are far more suited to the dyslexic brain, and universities have soooooo much more support on offer that it feels like a different world. DD can make video presentations rather than having to write essays for example.